Firearms fees proposals

[David63]

BASC welcomes evidence-based firearms fees proposals


Government proposals to increase the fee for the grant of a shotgun certificate from £50 to £79.50 with proportionate increases in other licensing fees have been welcomed as fair by the UK’s largest shooting organisation, the BritishAssociation for Shooting and Conservation (BASC).

If agreed these will be the first increases in fees for 13 years.

The proposals are contained in a consultation published today and originated in the work of a Home Office working group which included BASC, the British Shooting Sports Council and the police.

The fee for a shotgun renewal would rise to £49, for the grant of a firearm certificate to £88 and for renewal of firearms certificates to £62. Variations on firearms certificates would be reduced to £20. Coterminous certificates, where both shotgun and firearm certificates are dealt with at the same time would be £90 and then £65 on renewal.

Initial police proposals were for a rise in shotgun certificate fees from £50 to £109.BASC rejected this and asked for the component parts of the licensing system to be fully costed and examined in accordance with the principles of better regulation and Treasury guidelines and taking into account the police move to e-commerce for firearms licensing.

BASC chairman Alan Jarrett said: “We welcome the government’s initiative to involve stakeholders and do the job properly. Those who shoot can have confidence that they are paying a fair price for their certificate which has been decided after a rigorous process founded on solid evidence. We hope to see this proposal implemented after the consultation. I would urge everyone who shoots to make their views known in the Home Office online consultation.”

BASC chief executive Richard Ali said: “I congratulate the Home Office for ensuring that the full process complied with Treasury guidelines and with the principles of better regulation introduced under the last government and built on by this.”

GeoffreyClifton-Brown MP. Chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Shooting and Conservation, who worked closely with the Home Office on this issue, said:“I believe this is a good result for all sections of the shooting community. It provides a fair basis for fee levels in the future. Under these proposals the police are committed to achieving a cost-effective and consistent service across 42 constabularies. This is a good example of the All-Party Group workingwith BASC and the other shooting organisations, the police and the Home Office to produce an acceptable result and one which protects the shooting community forthe future.”

The consultation can be viewed here: http://bit.ly/1pnp6IM


Please take part in the consultation, we have 4 weeks until it closes

David

 

[jimbo1984]

Do we get better service in exchange for this fee increase where all flds sing from the same hymn sheet and make it up as they go along or just the same crap we have to put up with now ?

 

[accurate]

Completed survey. Suggested there is a breakdown of cost rather than an arbitrary increase proposal. Also suggested there might be better support for these price increases if the licensing offices are bound by performance targets like everyone else ie. expected time for license issue etc. as well as a consistent approach to their issue.

Should add that now this is in the spotlight I fully expect to see an annual increase in licensing for our sport - cynical perhaps?

Iain

 

[nun_hunter]

It's worth completing the survey to have an input and also to show that all FAC and SGC holders aren't rich toffs or farmers

 

[David63]

Yes a key point of this, and one that BASC has pushed very hard indeed, is that there must be an improvement in efficiency and consistency.

Remember by the way that Labour have again said this week that they want to put fees up to over £200! This is our opportunity to keep fees to a reasonable level.

David

 

[Paul at Fechan]

I think most of us would agree that as it has been a long time since a rise in fees the moderate increase is actually quite reasonable. Compared to the rise in the cost of reloading consumables it's fine by me!

 

[rabbitter]

Agreed, Paul. (Although I don't reload, if we extend your comment to include cost of guns, barrels, ammunition, fuel and all the other accessories that go along with shooting.)

The cost of a coterminous certificate is proposed at £65 for five years. £11 per year for a license? A fraction of the cost of the BBC license which is a lot less important to me.

 

[geoshot]

Fees are going to rise, that is inevitable, but we must be able to ask for an improvement in service and for standards to be set eg turn around times on grants, variations etc.
Hopefully the involvement of the likes of BASC in the discussions will counterbalance or negate the input form the antis who simply want fees to be used to discourage gun ownership in the UK.

 

[PeteL1]

IIRC the Firearms Act and Certificate requirements are there to protect the Public.
That being the case, the cost of the system should come from the Public Purse and not be a burden on shooters who are a relatively small community and are, I feel, being taxed unfairly(for that's what it is) as well as otherwise generally messed about unfairly with little recourse and no representation.

It's all part of the Home Office (or whatever it's called these days) Policy to remove all firearms from civilian hands by whatever means. Do I need to quote examples such as pistols, self loading rifles, expanding bullets, lead shot, etc, etc, etc.

The nitwits proposing this unwarranted increase should be told to go away, get their house in order and give the service for which they are being paid.

It is my considered opinion that, BASC and all other concerned organisations should NOT be agreeing to any changes but should refuse to envisage any such changes whatsoever and, moreover, use legal action, if necessary to prevent it. What are we paying our subscriptions for, certainly not for such organisations to cow tow every time, to those who would do us down.
Peter

 

[rabbitter]

How much do you pay for your passport? Your license to drive a car? License to fish the river?

Seriously, is there a single firearms owner out there who will say "Now that the renewal is going up by literally pounds per year, I am going to give up my guns" ?

 

[FGYT]

I think most of us would agree that as it has been a long time since a rise in fees the moderate increase is actually quite reasonable. Compared to the rise in the cost of reloading consumables it's fine by me!

Dont forget that every thing you buy or do because of the FAC/SGC is taxed at 20% VAT so your average shooter pays a lot more than just the Licence fee to the Gov over the 5yr period
Which I suspect more than covers the short fall in the costs I guess the Gov dosnt show what part of the police budgets it hands out is suppose to cover the Costs of Fire arms admin so the police and PCC forget and demand full payment up front cause they have spent the Gov allocated money on PCC lunches and staff

we are also Tax payers before they harp on about Tax payers paying for Shooters like we are a separate non working section

That said i agree a nominal increase over time is not a problem
Tho with DVLA stopping tax discs (paper system) and about to Remover the paper section of your driving licence to move to on-line More effective efficient and cheaper administration for 25 million driving licences
they should be able to Stream line certification to be much cheaper any way FAC is basically 4 computer database searches (2 local,2 national one by SIB officer) a home visit maybe check with your doctor not a lot of actual Hrs in it even if you have to type in the details 4 times

maybe they should do a time and motion study on Wiltshire (2 weeks for new applications and 10 mins for walk in Variation) and ask why all other Counties are generally a shambles Still waiting for mine to float to the top in Dorset was logged 9th sept still nothing and had more livestock killed this week by fox

In fact can BASC get a run thru of exactly what they have to do to process an application as I say ask Wilts

 

[bogtrotter]

I don't like to pay any more for anything than I have to, but I don't think these figures are unreasonable considering your license lasts for five year

I know some don't receive a good service, but that's not true of us all many of us receive excellent service from our Firearms Departments.

 

[nun_hunter]

How much do you pay for your passport? Your license to drive a car? License to fish the river?

Seriously, is there a single firearms owner out there who will say "Now that the renewal is going up by literally pounds per year, I am going to give up my guns" ?

A lot less than an FAC if worked out over the time period they're valid for and both potentially pose more of a threat to innocent life than FAC holders. How many people killed by cars? The threat of terrorists gaining a british passport? Either they're subsidised costs or far more efficient than FLDs

 

[rabbitter]

I have no information as to any of those stats, but I maintain that the fee as it stands is reasonable and the proposed increase is also reasonable. I was also trying to illustrate that we pay fees for other services without much thought or opposition. I believe that shooters should contribute. I also believe that firearms departments should be accountable when their response times are poor.

As a side issue, I strongly recommend that Dave BASC get's a new typesetter.

 

[scubadog]

What arediculous servey!
That has to be the most pointless survey i have ever taken!

 

[David63]

I have just given myself a very stiff talking too, and reminded myself that next time I copy and paste something from Word onto SD, to double check that its not merged words together

 

[bobjs]

I for one think the increase in the fees is well within reason, but as has also been said they ( the various forces in the uk) need to have a standardised process to allow everyone to be praying from the same prayer book, at the moment some of the horror stories I have heard and read are just the tip of the iceberg,

Bob

 

[Apache]

It's not a popular viewpoint, but I think we should pay full cost recovery. It puts us in a strong position as shooters.

I also think the fees should rise every 5 years with inflation over that period. 5 years as that is the length of a cert so each holder will pay each fee before it changes.

I don't want all forces the same. They will move down to the lowest common denominator - not up to the level of the best. We see this in so many things time and time again. Quite happy with the job North Yorkshire are doing!

 

[nun_hunter]

It's not a popular viewpoint, but I think we should pay full cost recovery. It puts us in a strong position as shooters.

I also think the fees should rise every 5 years with inflation over that period. 5 years as that is the length of a cert so each holder will pay each fee before it changes.

I don't want all forces the same. They will move down to the lowest common denominator - not up to the level of the best. We see this in so many things time and time again. Quite happy with the job North Yorkshire are doing!

Although I disagree with full cost recovery I do see the logic behind putting us in a strong position, unfortunately as it's a government run department they'll just do what they like no matter how badly because they can. Your other two points are spot on, it's rough for the people who currently get poor service but we'd all get that level if things were made equal across all forces not all get the best.

 

[Si]

I'm happy with the level of service I get from GMP.... my last renewal came back within a few weeks and over a month before my current FAC expired.

The price increase seems fair to me