Following thermal spotters, has the need for top quality binos decreased, or increased in recent years ?

[Bowland blades]

I think it's important to distinguish between

a) Positive ID of the target species

b) Confirmation of which individual animal is to be shot- provided they are all in a safe suitable location/backstop

The former does sound very risky to me. Although I suppose many of us do it- even if we are ratting with an airgun and thermal spotter and foxers do it on occasion.

But if one watches deer walk and move through a thermal- they are unmistakable as deer. IMO selecting which target animal to take through a scope is not unsafe. Using it as quarry identification is.

Simple rule is " dont poke a rifle at something you dont mean to kill or destroy " Been that way for hundreds of years , will still be the same until we get smart bullets that can over ride the stupid humans decisions

 

[Tim.243]

That's not to my taste. Treating deer as vermin. These digital scopes desensitise us IMO.

Personally I would rather see more quarry species brought up to the high respect levels that deer recieve, rather than some species being degraded and treated like vermin.

The way some people treat foxes But I shan't go all anti on everyone here

Vermin is your wording not mine...!
Why we have to many deer is people are walking around reading a romantic book on stalking instead of shooting them.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Vermin is your wording not mine...!
Why we have to many deer is people are walking around reading a romantic book on stalking instead of shooting them.

Shooting any muntjak on sight as a blanket policy is pretty close to how we treat vermin IMO

 

[monarman]

Would and do leave the thermal at home when stalking... and also from an early age taught never to point a rifle at something you don't intend to shoot at! (Military training also dictated that)...

Binos should never replace a thermal as recognition of quarry(correct sex for example ... condition of quarry ( there may be a visible health issue that will dictate a prefered cull).... the backstop .. (thermals often miss things that may be hidden by a hedge or other scrub etc.( anyone who says you must only shoot with an earth backstop clearly doesn't shoot many deer)....
Binos should always be taken stalking...

 

[Tim.243]

Shooting any muntjak on sight as a blanket policy is pretty close to how we treat vermin IMO

When you took your dsc1
Hi guys This is my compulsory "hello" post. I would prefer not to as, being introverted, I have no desire to draw attention to myself but here we are - Located in the SW shooting rimfire but moving to centrefire and stalking as soon as I take my
DCC 1 in a month.
Did you voice any questions that you think muntjac are treated as vermin? I bet your holiday bar bill that is a no lol

 

[jimmer.13]

So, you're happy to pull the trigger on a set of eyes that someone else deems to be a fox, without confirming that for yourself? You must be completely off your rocker

Climb down of your high horse chap and go back and read the post properly

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

When you took your dsc1
Hi guys This is my compulsory "hello" post. I would prefer not to as, being introverted, I have no desire to draw attention to myself but here we are - Located in the SW shooting rimfire but moving to centrefire and stalking as soon as I take my
DCC 1 in a month.
Did you voice any questions that you think muntjac are treated as vermin? I bet your holiday bar bill that is a no lol

Quite an agressive approach - to trawl through my old posts in an attempt to find something to discredit me. But fair enough- if that's what you have chosen-

I didn't say all muntjak are treated like vermin. I was referring to your friends farm policy of shooting them all on sight.

Had someone mentioned that attitude - I think that would have at least raised a discussion on a DSC1- given it's a fairly extreme "cull plan"- if one can call it that. Combined with using digital scopes which likely outperform all glass scopes in the final hour of legal shooting light- it doesn't seem to give them much of a sporting chance IMO. It much more closely resembles ones approach to vermin- hence my comment. Unless I'm missing something?

Do what you like.

 

[VSS]

Climb down of your high horse chap and go back and read the post properly

Apologies, I did misread part of your post

 

[JH83]

I have long said that if you carry a thermal you use binoculars a lot, lot less. In addition you’ll lean on thermal a lot more in the key times, ie dusk and dawn. I will never not carry binos though. They work when it’s warm and wet, don’t tun out of battery, for identification of species and suitability for the cull sheet, also in my case as a LRF-as for those of us who like to ring steel a set of LRF binos make more sense. I would say it lessens the necessity for £2500 glasses though, as they’ll be in the harness 80% of the time.

I think even a with a budget thermal an educated stalker who knows their ground will rarely get an ID wrong but it happens. I’ve certainly been distracted by seated stock in heather until it was light enough to ID with glass.

Then there was the Cumbria situ…..

 

[Tim.243]

Quite an agressive approach - to trawl through my old posts in an attempt to find something to discredit me. But fair enough- if that's what you have chosen-

I didn't say all muntjak are treated like vermin. I was referring to your friends farm policy of shooting them all on sight.

Had someone mentioned that attitude - I think that would have at least raised a discussion on a DSC1- given it's a fairly extreme "cull plan"- if one can call it that. Combined with using digital scopes which likely outperform all glass scopes in the final hour of legal shooting light- it doesn't seem to give them much of a sporting chance IMO. It much more closely resembles ones approach to vermin- hence my comment. Unless I'm missing something?

Do what you like.

You wrote it not me....This bares out from 2 sides of the fence...I remember a women shouting at us long netting rabbits
"give them a chance" we do madam just not much of one
Sorry to say but when you pulled the vermin card and having deer conditioned on your ticket then the race was lost.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

You wrote it not me....This bares out from 2 sides of the fence...I remember a women shouting at us long netting rabbits
"give them a chance" we do madam just not much of one
Sorry to say but when you pulled the vermin card and having deer conditioned on your ticket then the race was lost.

I don't know the legal definition between vermin and pest? Do you?

I didn't pull any kind of a card. If you wish to educate me on the definition of vermin and pest and show how that approach to Muntjak didn't meet either of those definitions, please do

 

[nun_hunter]

All those on here saying "never point a rifle at something you do t want to destroy" are I'm assuming only loading a round into the chamber when the rifle is on aim on a confirmed deer or fox etc?

How do you manage woodland stalking when you're too close to work the bolt without spooking deer or a wiley fox that's come in to a squeak?

 

[Klenchblaize]

Thermal transformed winter squirrel control spot them hundreds of yards away and is fast. Tiniest glimps of heat in a tree is all you need. You would never spot them with bins.
D

I get this and perhaps I’m simply an old reactionary; my earlier post intended to do no more than pull the over-sensitive SD thermal-loving members rail, but forgive me for speculating in what may have inspired so many of today’s hard-nosed SD Wildlife Operators. As in was it the thrill of the kill irrespective of species and mechanism or a hunger of the soul for the Autumn-scented woods, the caress of fine walnut & steel, and the satisfying tump of Flickertail as he/she proscribes a graceful arch into eternity and a mouldering coffin of sweet chestnut litter?

K

 

[monarman]

All those on here saying "never point a rifle at something you do t want to destroy" are I'm assuming only loading a round into the chamber when the rifle is on aim on a confirmed deer or fox etc?

How do you manage woodland stalking when you're too close to work the bolt without spooking deer or a wiley fox that's come in to a squeak?

Nope.... carry rifle loaded with safety on....
Look at quarry through binos... if shootable then point the rifle at it and slip of the safety and pull the trigger..... thats why it's even more important not to point a rifle at something unless you Intend to shoot it.. the rifle is already loaded.
Others will no doubt do it differently.....

 

[nun_hunter]

Nope.... carry rifle loaded with safety on....
Look at quarry through binos... if shootable then point the rifle at it and slip of the safety and pull the trigger..... thats why it's even more important not to point a rifle at something unless you Intend to shoot it.. the rifle is already loaded.
Others will no doubt do it differently.....

But as soon as you load the rifle it's pointing at things you don't intend to shoot. While you're carrying in, removing it from your shoulder, bringing it down towards the intended target, setting it up on sticks or the bipod etc.

Using the rifle to check the final aspects before the shot, is not inherently unsafe, no more so than wandering around the woods with a loaded rifle.

 

[monarman]

But as soon as you load the rifle it's pointing at things you don't intend to shoot. While you're carrying in, removing it from your shoulder, bringing it down towards the intended target, setting it up on sticks or the bipod etc.

Using the rifle to check the final aspects before the shot, is not inherently unsafe, no more so than wandering around the woods with a loaded rifle.

So you don't shoot many deer then I take it??.... or have you found the holy grail of noiseless bolt operation rifles?....

Perhaps you have a blaser which explains your rather naive reply?....

 

[nun_hunter]

So you don't shoot many deer then I take it??.... or have you found the holy grail of noiseless bolt operation rifles?....

Perhaps you have a blaser which explains your rather naive reply?....

No I carry a loaded rifle and if necessary look through the scope at deer when deciding which one to shoot.

I don't feel so unsafe that I can't use the scope to aid selection of what to shoot or subscribe to the notion that I can only point a rifle at something I am going to destroy.

 

[Tim.243]

I don't know the legal definition between vermin and pest? Do you?

I didn't pull any kind of a card. If you wish to educate me on the definition of vermin and pest and show how that approach to Muntjak didn't meet either of those definitions, please do

I follow the conditions on my FAC
Which are defined in two separate categories.
The .22lr is for vermin ground game also AOLQ

The .243/.270 is for the shooting of Deer (under the deer act) also AOLQ

So since Muntjac come under the deer act, however as they don't have a season unlike the other 5 then they can be shot all year around. Where it falls apart is people many don't shoot them in the summer (as the bucks have no hard antler value)

Left unchecked is why they are every where.

I keep my stalking via shooting pigeons also foxes and I am not selective on the pigeons or foxes,

 

[monarman]

No I carry a loaded rifle and if necessary look through the scope at deer when deciding which one to shoot.

I don't feel so unsafe that I can't use the scope to aid selection of what to shoot or subscribe to the notion that I can only point a rifle at something I am going to destroy.

So you point the rifle at something you intend to shoot!.... yet you tried to belittle my statement ??.....

 

[jimmer.13]

Would and do leave the thermal at home when stalking... and also from an early age taught never to point a rifle at something you don't intend to shoot at! (Military training also dictated that)...

Binos should never replace a thermal as recognition of quarry(correct sex for example ... condition of quarry ( there may be a visible health issue that will dictate a prefered cull).... the backstop .. (thermals often miss things that may be hidden by a hedge or other scrub etc.( anyone who says you must only shoot with an earth backstop clearly doesn't shoot many deer)....
Binos should always be taken stalking...

Susat sights came into service in the late 80s suit before that.
It was tought in the British Army to use as an aid to observation for every rifle man and soldier.
All those soldiers on the street corners in NI back in the day must of intended to shoot an awful lot of people……It was is still used to read number plates observe vulnerable points and suspect devices and even to get a positive ID of known suspects at a distance.
A fire arm is an inert stick until you chamber a round.
A rifle with rounds in the magazine and none in the chamber is made safe and harmless unless it has a bayonet fitted or you intend d to use as a club.
It is good practice to keep it pointing in a safe direction and it is even better practice to know the state of your rifle at all times and be confident how to use it safely.
Absolutely nothing wrong with using an unloaded rifle to observe quarry that you are intending to shoot. Using a combination of thermal,binos and your scope safely is winner in my book.

Each to his own I suppose