Foxes

[Dalua]

"proper planning prevents p#*s poor performance "

How about "'phoning police places pointless pernicious precedent"?

I wonder whether the police really would decide not to respond simply because the rifleman reported to them might be the same fellow who 'phoned in earlier?

Should I be 'phoning when I get the airgun out to shoot targets in my garden?

As Bewsher says, when shooting vermin from an upstairs window one does not actally stick the rifle out - or at least, I don't!

 

[Morgy]

Working with the police by advising about the fox cull is good practice, if someone or the nosey neighbour rings in to say there is a person lurking in a garden at midnight, saves a great deal of work for the police, the report is enough that they have to send someone to investigate, a phone call to you prior to coming out will certainly calm the nerves a bit for them.

The other side of the coin is causing stress and inconvenience to a third party through covert actions, noise and someone having to watch the dispatch of the foxes, through no fault of their own, now that can open a can of worms on its own.

police cad number, risk assessment prior to the event, planning on kill area away from prying eyes, advising strictly on a need to know basis is all good practice, the answer is to minimise any risk and including third party shock waves best as possible.

some area forces have conditions for FAC sect 1 to dispatch foxes using .22 rimmy, check before ye go

at the end of the day, the person who squeezes the trigger is responsible, if you care not to care, and if you have the police in attendance for whatever reason, there is only one person to arrest. You

Every job I attend gets a pre removal inspection during the daylight hours, if safe to do so, I do my utmost to minimise any risk and try to keep disturbance to a minimum, create a cad number and close it down when finished.

as like any other risk laden job "due diligence " is the popular word

the 6 p's are best , "proper planning prevents p#*s poor performance "

phil

+1

 

[Morgy]

How about "'phoning police places pointless pernicious precedent"?

I wonder whether the police really would decide not to respond simply because the rifleman reported to them might be the same fellow who 'phoned in earlier?

Should I be 'phoning when I get the airgun out to shoot targets in my garden?

As Bewsher says, when shooting vermin from an upstairs window one does not actally stick the rifle out - or at least, I don't!

e-mail Jim Jones and ask him.

Jim.Jones@gmp.police.uk

 

[matt_hooks]

I totally agree. Why on earth would you need to inform the police that you are going to carry out a perfectly lawful and legal action? If you think for one second that having phoned in is going to stop the full on response that happens when someone cries "gun" then you are sadly mistaken.

If I shoot something, I have assessed the situation, and the shot, and have decided that it is a safe shot to take. I am licensed to hold, carry and use a firearm. Along with that license comes all the responsibilities. As it happens, my FEO is pretty knowledgable about firearms, I believe he does some shooting himself, but he is not there, in that situation, in that moment. The ONLY person who is qualified to make the call is ME. I'm the one who can see the situation and decide whether to pull the trigger or not.

If I am being paid, then I come under the HSE, and risk assessments etc. would be required, to show "due dilligence" in case the unforeseen happens. I tend to do a similar risk assessment when looking at new land, purely to reassure myself that I haven't missed something. I do not ask for my FEO's input on this, nor does he know that I do it (why should he?).

If I had to inform the police every time I took my rifles out to shoot them, then I'd be on the phone to them all the time. A waste of their time, and of mine. If I consider that there is a particular reason to let them know, for instance if I'm shooting on public ground where I am likely to be seen, then I may choose to call them, though I still expect a visit from plod if a member of the public sees me. All it generally means is that the armed officers leave their weapons holstered on initial contact.

 

[Overlay]

It's all about being responsible and doing your bit to minimise an accident, carry out the job to your best ability and reduce any fallout from third parties and maintaining standards in direct response to managing wildlife and or dispatch in the best way possible.

It isn't law to advise the police, discharging a firearm sometimes in close proximity to other peoples property.
but it is from or near the highway this will at times cause an upset, if your near a road or a footpath whether it is in use or not you are required to notify the police

Real time it is irrelevant whether you do phone in for a CAD number, the fact is you will be the one answerable no one else for the work you have carried out - your decision 100%. Your responsible 100%. Make your mind up time.

The world s full of paperwork. RAMS feasibility certification blah blah blah Some of it is pointless guffle, also some of it makes you think about what you are actually doing, should you be doing it and is it safe, to do so

That's not there without reason. " no accident is no accident ".

There is no reason to go OTT just to your best ability.

i have been on removal work and left the target species on occasions have been asked by the client that one walked right behind you, the closed reply " unsafe area" full stop.

That reminds them why they asked you to undertake the work, you work to your standards, not anyone else's

Keep safe

phil

 

[Rake Aboot]

If you have an open cert, and follow the law regards where you can shoot, then a private garden is just another foxing permission.

Do it sensibley and there is no issue. It`s just the same as using FAC air to control feral pigeons, and no one bats an eyelid at that.

 

[enfieldspares]

Tell the idiot to LOCK UP his chickens! We kept chickens in a large chicken run that was about twenty feet wide by sixty feet long and wired to six feet. It had a wooden chicken house that was ten feet by twenty feet. Never had a loss to foxes.

If he is too stupid or too idle to lock up his chickens at night, or too tight fisted to make a proper wire pen the foxes will take them. So tell him to get off his backside and lock them up at night and he won't have the problem.

As for cage trapping and etc. Who is going to pay for that? But if you do shoot one then a moderated .410 being on an SGC has no "conditions" as to what you can use it for.

 

[Whitebeard]

if your near a road or a footpath whether it is in use or not you are required to notify the police
phil

Not correct Philip:

In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse todischarge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists ofor comprises a carriageway​

​

​

​

and in consequence a user of the carriageway isinjured, interrupted or endangered. [Section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980 asamended]. It is important to remember that the discharge of a firearm is notprohibited in itself. It must also be proved that there was an injury, or thatsomeone’s passage was interrupted or interfered with e.g. they have been forced to​

make a detour.

Ian.

 

[Overlay]

Not correct Philip:

In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse todischarge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists ofor comprises a carriageway​

and in consequence a user of the carriageway isinjured, interrupted or endangered. [Section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980 asamended]. It is important to remember that the discharge of a firearm is notprohibited in itself. It must also be proved that there was an injury, or thatsomeone’s passage was interrupted or interfered with e.g. they have been forced to​

make a detour.

Ian.
[/QUO

Hi Ian

can you check my thread for me

I thought that was what I said in my thread.

you are required to notify the police on or near the highway or footpath ?

ATB

Phil

 

[Whitebeard]

You are not required to notify the police if you intend to shoot near a highway or public footpath, an offence is only committed if you shoot within 50ft of the centre of a highway "AND" a member of the public is injured, interupted or endagenered, in other words if no one else is present no offence is committed
You can shoot from and over public footpaths and once again you do not need to inform the police.

Ian.

 

[Overlay]

You are not required to notify the police if you intend to shoot near a highway or public footpath, an offence is only committed if you shoot within 50ft of the centre of a highway "AND" a member of the public is injured, interupted or endagenered, in other words if no one else is present no offence is committed
You can shoot from and over public footpaths and once again you do not need to inform the police.

Ian.

ha ha - bit like the old time game licence and the poacher getting caught with the rabbits with no game licence, not guilty of poaching until caught but your supposed to have a game licence ? it is always better to err to the better, I would never advise a person to discharge a firearm on the highway without police awareness, but that is only me, my concern would be not to have , and or avoid an accident.

my comment would really be to work with the police and keep them in the loop, i don't believe for one minute they will be too pleased coming around the corner to face someone with a rifle, they are our protectors of our society (as it is), they probably have enough to do, its called working together, in the event of an accident involving firearms in one way I guess you are right, you will be investigated and arrested whether you have phoned in to advise anyway, but for me I always without fail, obtain a cad number and advise when finished, wherever I intend to discharge a firearm for pest or wildlife reduction particularly in urban or built up areas.

A relative short while ago I was in croydon undertaking a fox reduction, I duly got my cad number and two hours into the work I was called by the police to ask if I would mind leaving the area, I duly packed up and left and went home to find that where I had been, not three hundred yards away there were rioters and mayhem that caused immense damage to the area, a terrible night by all accounts, now that on its own is a genuine reason to liase with the police, I was kept in the loop and after two weeks allowed to return to complete the work. that phone call wouldn't have happened without a CAD number

For me that was a wake up call to ensure and drive the need to communicate (as I have always done) with all people who need to know with the police at the top of the list, I won't be changing my system of work, it helps

ATB

Phil

 

[hogey]

Thank you for all the words of wisdom.
I will asses the garden in daylight today and see how it looks. If I decide to undertake the task I will be shooting from an upstairs balcony down into the garden with ,22 and will be out of sight from neighbours.
I have already advised the guy that if I think it is unsafe or any risk of me been seen then I will not do it and he will have to pay and employ a professional pest controller .
Anyway of stalking tomorrow so will not be before the weekend .
Thanks again

 

[bewsher500]

Thank you for all the words of wisdom.
I will asses the garden in daylight today and see how it looks. If I decide to undertake the task I will be shooting from an upstairs balcony down into the garden with ,22 and will be out of sight from neighbours.
I have already advised the guy that if I think it is unsafe or any risk of me been seen then I will not do it and he will have to pay and employ a professional pest controller .
Anyway of stalking tomorrow so will not be before the weekend .
Thanks again

I actually assess at night as well.
no point clearing in the day if you find out the garden is overun with neighbours cats at night, or the local badger watchers sit out and feed the foxes

good luck

 

[Irish Bob]

My neighbour has come to me and asked me if I can help him get rid of the foxes in his garden. He has lost all his chickens to them and his wife claims they are in the garden every night and she has seen six at one time ?
The other night I had the trail cam out in my garden because my two borders have been going mad at night.
I have images of eyes on the top of his hen house and I thought they where cats but on reflection could well be foxes. I have lent him my cam to see what comes into his garden.
Question is what are the legalities of shooting foxes in his garden.
I can shoot from his upstairs down into the garden and there are no houses behind his garden only playing fields which should be ok at night but can never be sure.
I know whatever I do it is ok until it goes wrong then its my neck and FAC on the line .
I wish he had never asked me and I have not said yes but that I would see what I could come up with.
Maybe trapping would be the best way then dispatching in the trap with a moderated .22
I would welcome any opinions or ideas

Dave

I have highlighted the relevant text. If, when carrying out a risk assessment, you have any doubts about the safety of using a firearm the answer is don't.

The best advice you can give is that they should do a better job of fencing the chicken pen.

 

[Overlay]

I have highlighted the relevant text. If, when carrying out a risk assessment, you have any doubts about the safety of using a firearm the answer is don't.

The best advice you can give is that they should do a better job of fencing the chicken pen.

+ 1 bang on, excellent advice

 

[Pedro]

To be honest, if someone is going to carry out this activity, you need to apply common sense and most of the relevant points have been made above. A recce beforehand and a risk assessment as a result would be advisable. Seeking advice from the FLO or FEO is not applicable. They are involved with licencing firearms, not their practical use and individual circumstances of use. Although they may, individually have some experience, they are just as likely to have no practical experience of using firearms.

Should there be a real danger of a neighbour/passer by shouting "gun gun gun" to the police, then take steps to minimise this, which may include telling the police beforehand or even telling the neighbours (depending on the neighbours of course). To say that telling the police will not stop them landing tooled up and carting off everyone isn't necessarily the case. The police will have to act on any call, but they too do risk assessments and that will include taking into account your call. In all likelihood, they'll call you before doing anything.

 

[Morgy]

The problem with common sense is....it isnt that common!

 

[hogey]

I have had a look at the garden both day and night and do not consider it safe to shoot due to the floodlight all weather football pitch behind it that remains open until 10 pm every night.
There is an upstairs window that overlooks the garden and would be ok to shoot from there if it where in the dead of night but I am not prepared to sit up all night and wait for them.
I have set up a live cage trap and if successful will then dispatch with rimfire
I consider this to be the safest solution .

 

[patrickt]

I have had a look at the garden both day and night and do not consider it safe to shoot due to the floodlight all weather football pitch behind it that remains open until 10 pm every night.
There is an upstairs window that overlooks the garden and would be ok to shoot from there if it where in the dead of night but I am not prepared to sit up all night and wait for them.
I have set up a live cage trap and if successful will then dispatch with rimfire
I consider this to be the safest solution .

Dave, you certainly got some words of wisdom, did you not!! myself, I would do exactly what you have just written in this last message, incidentally, you have not told me if you have christened that new toy that you got from Greenlee!!!

Patrickt

 

[Cyres]

Well having shot a few off my back lawn out of the bedroom window not sure what the issue is.

Mine were nicely illuminated by a 500 watt PIR operated flood light cat biscuits on the lawn ensured a nice safe head shot. Even rural foxs arn't at all worried about PIR opreated exterior lights.

You could easily create a suitable backstop eg kids plastic sand pit filled with sand , bait that and use a suitable sub esp a magtech, head shoot and most unlikely to exit and if so straight into the sand, what could be safer?

Easy to condition foxs to dinner time so thats gets around the sports stadia issue if need be and no need to be waiting out for ages. Just make sure you have some practice, check zero and its a very simple job.

D