French disaster

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Can't believe some of the bile I am seeing on here, anger at what has happened I can understand but the hatred towards Muslims in general I can't, IS is not a religion they are a group of extremists with a political agenda that have hijacked a religion, as they would hijack any other group if it suited their political ends.

In fact stirring up ill feeling towards resident Muslims is playing into IS's hands, if ordinary Muslims feel we hate them and become in fear of us they are far more likely to be recruited to IS in which case IS has achieved its aim.


IS is our enemy not Muslims.
 
bogtrotter said:
Can't believe some of the bile I am seeing on here, anger at what has happened I can understand but the hatred towards Muslims in general I can't, IS is not a religion they are a group of extremists with a political agenda that have hijacked a religion, as they would hijack any other group if it suited their political ends.

In fact stirring up ill feeling towards resident Muslims is playing into IS's hands, if ordinary Muslims feel we hate them and become in fear of us they are far more likely to be recruited to IS in which case IS has achieved its aim.


IS is our enemy not Muslims.
Click to expand...

It's an incovenient truth that the Taleban, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, IS have all brought down far more death and terror upon Muslims than they ever have, or likely ever will, on the West. Paris was an abomination and if that doesn't generate anger and hatred for the perpetrators then you've no soul. On the other hand if your next thought is that it in any way confirms your twisted view that all/most Muslims are evil then you've no brain!

How did Thursday's suicide bombings in Beirut make these folk feel about the whole mess? Only 40-odd folk killed admittedly and they were all pesky muslims so maybe we just put it down to triba hi-jinx among the rag heads? And then there was the guy that tackled the second bomber, killing himself but potentailly saving dozens of other lives. Good old proper 'Boys Own adventure' heroism! Except he was a muslim.... ****!
 
Unfortunately arguing on the internet is akin to playing chess against a pigeon; no matter how logical and reasoned and based in fact your opinion is your opponent will just **** on the table, knock the pieces over and strut about like he won anyway. Which seems to describe quite a few of the more ignorant posters on the thread along with some of the down right racist comments I've read.
 
Pine Marten said:
Right, so here’s something to ponder for the followers of the clash of civilisations theory: in the eyes of the vast majority of the world’s population, what justifies the fact that by and large, we in the West enjoy such disproportionately more pleasant lives than them? What exactly have we done to earn the right to benefit from this huge level of inequality? People have tried to argue in the past that it’s because we’re somehow cleverer (long-discounted racial nonsense), or because some of us are God’s chosen people (difficult one to prove), or because we’re broadly a Christian culture and therefore nicer (again, doesn’t hold water). Now really, a huge chunk of it is just down to luck and geography. But in terms of some sort of higher purpose, we claim to be a sort of shining beacon of liberty, democracy, the rule of law, solidarity, all things that in the end make life better for all individuals concerned. You can dress that up as a united Europe, or call it the American Dream if you like. It’s supposed to serve as an example for all humanity to aspire to a similar state. But the important word in that is ALL.

Because if in fact, we only want to extend these ideals as far as ourselves, and the only justification for our continued disproportionate prosperity and security is the perpetuation of the status-quo, then it becomes rather more problematic to argue against those who feel a keen sense of injustice. Feelings towards the West run the full spectrum from admiration and a desire to emulate (a positive force) to absolute hatred and rejection, coupled with a feeling of rejection, which can manifest itself like it did in Paris this weekend (thankfully very much a minority point of view). At the moment, we have millions of people fleeing Fascists With Beards or Fascists With Ties in Syria and coming here, heading for the safety of “Fortress Europe”. If we leave them at the foot of the Wall to fend for themselves, I wonder what the resulting shift in the spectrum of dispositions towards the West will look like? People have long memories….
Click to expand...

https://www.facebook.com/812707315509772/videos/837069556406881/

Have a click to see if youve lost your marbles...
 
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EssexStalker said:
That is free speech and you're entitled to vent your opinion, however it doesn't make it less offensive and ill-informed. Not only am I French but I also spent some of my youth in North Africa in a muslim country. I have also spent time in Lebanon and Syria in the 1990s. Islam is not a religion committed to the destruction of other cultures. Al Qaeda, ISIS and their ilk are just a perversion of a religion that has existed for 1400 odd years, most of those cohabiting peacefully with others. Indeed the more extreme factions within the Christian movement in your own country could well be natural bedfellows and share similar views.



Last time I looked they were my kin and I am a liberal. But I won't change my tune, whatever that might be.





Some were French citizens, easily radicalised thanks to the same attitude you share being prevalent in France. Second or third generation immigrants that feel disfranchised from their roots and their parents adopted country. But I couldn't expect you to understand the nuances of the French cultural system as it is quite different from the States. There is a failure of the state to address these issues and your rhetoric is hardly going to encourage any immigrant, whether born in the country or not to want to assimilate.



Wow.



Double wow. Try to hide your glee please...



I assume Southern will soon reply defending free speech....



Pseudo-medical? People like you scare me. Your definition of an open mind seems somewhat different from mine.
Click to expand...

Having highlighted my post i take it..
You oppose mosques with proven association to terrorists being closed down ?
You oppose known terrorists being deported ?
You oppose the financial gold mine where hamza, bakri and the like defended by human rights lawyers that cost in the millions..

Corporal punishment - about the only thing any person of sound mind may/ maynot oppose...

Then you wish to stifle free speech and debate..

Most of this thread has been conducted reasonably and everybody is entitled to their view..
As firearm certificate holders we dont need to be pigeon holed to suit any individuals personal view, opinion or agenda thanks
 
in the eyes of the vast majority of the world’s population, what justifies the fact that by and large, we in the West enjoy such disproportionately more pleasant lives than them? What exactly have we done to earn the right to benefit from this huge level of inequality?
Click to expand...

"In the eyes of those who are not as prosperous" ... really doesn't matter, does it, unless you think envy if noble.

What made Western Europe and the USA prosperous is the same thing which can only create prosperity: free market capitalism and a minimal government with protects industry, creativity, savings and investment. As Lord Acton explained, the cultural atmosphere for that was the printing of the Protestant Bibles, which removed the power of kings and high priests. And the USA, by starting a new type of country without class, and minimal government, the Industrial Revolution and Agricultural Revolutions made more progress in the world of European ancestry in one hundred years, than in the entire previous 10,000. Individual wealth and peaceful prosperity are a threat to the Old World notions of a powerful few rulers, whether they be backwards cultures or reactionary socialists and communists who want to turn back progress.
 
Second or third generation immigrants that feel disfranchised from their roots and their parents adopted country. But I couldn't expect you to understand the nuances of the French cultural system as it is quite different from the States. There is a failure of the state to address these issues and your rhetoric is hardly going to encourage any immigrant, whether born in the country or not to want to assimilate.
- Essexsussex
Click to expand...

You make my point for me:

The State has no responsibility to "address the concerns" of people who fail ( refuse ) to assimilate into a modern culture. The State obviously failed to screen some of these parents and grandparent immigrants, and failed to educate the children into good French citizens, as all modern liberal education has failed to do. If they don't feel acclimated in France, Germany, Sweden or the UK, they should return whence they came and try that. When I see young Arab men on television talking about how they are coming to Sweden for the welfare handouts, it makes me sick. You cannot assimilate if you don't work and honest job and shed the culture which tossed you out.
 
Southern said:
"In the eyes of those who are not as prosperous" ... really doesn't matter, does it, unless you think envy is noble.
Click to expand...

Oh but it does matter. There really are a lot of them. I mean even though we sent you our poor, our huddled masses, as requested, some time ago, there are still a shedload of them with nowhere to go. It's very much like saying that it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks of hunting. Yes it does, because we're a small minority.

Southern said:
What made Western Europe and the USA prosperous is the same thing which can only create prosperity: free market capitalism and a minimal government with protects industry, creativity, savings and investment.
Click to expand...

This may come as a surprise to you, but in Europe (not just the UK), it is not taken as a given by everyone that free market capitalism is a good thing at all. Tolerated yes, but wholeheartedly embraced, not necessarily. As for minimal government, I don't think there's a single country in Europe where that's a serious mainstream view.
 
Just had a thought.
IS is stated to function just like a regular government and makes a high proportion of its funds from illegal oil sales.
USA etc have high def cameras in orbit so first off define each oil well then destroy them all with whatever works best and so turn off the easy money trail.
Martin
 
Bavarianbrit said:
Just had a thought.
IS is stated to function just like a regular government and makes a high proportion of its funds from illegal oil sales.
USA etc have high def cameras in orbit so first off define each oil well then destroy them all with whatever works best and so turn off the easy money trail.
Martin
Click to expand...


and heroin sales will rocket....
 
Just my last comment on this thread and it's to all the liberal minds that seem to be posting

If these terrorists get what they are after and get both feet in your country make sure you tell them of the freedom you have to say as you please and have whatever opinions you like oh and don't forget to sit down to discuss your differences over a nice cup of tea

Best regards
Jimmy
 
This may come as a surprise to you, but in Europe (not just the UK), it is not taken as a given by everyone that free market capitalism is a good thing at all. Tolerated yes, but wholeheartedly embraced, not necessarily. As for minimal government, I don't think there's a single country in Europe where that's a serious mainstream view.
Click to expand...

While their ignorance of economics, sociology and history may make them good political fodder for the rulers, it doesn't make them right, any more than their ignorance of the laws of physics, chemistry, astronomy, aerodynamics, nuclear power, or the climate makes them "right". Yes, they are the majority, but they cannot elevate civilization - only ride it and hopefully not be such a cancer as to destroy their host. Socialism is a fairy tale, which only lasts until the money created by free market transactions is consumed. Government is incapable of creating wealth, only redistributing it to buy votes in sham elections. These backward ideologies of racist Islam, often mixed with the residue of Marxism, don't even care about the free ride.
 
as if to confirm my fears that a xenophobic backlash against Islam is EXACTLY what the terrorists want...this:

Paris attacks: Ahmed Almuhamed's passport may have been planted by terrorists | Europe | News | The Independent

French officials say that they have no proof that the Stade de France suicide bomber – one of three who detonated crude explosive belts at the stadium – was Mr Almuhamed. Intelligence sources in the US told CBS news that there are doubts whether the passport is authentic. The number of the document is incorrect and name does not match the picture, it was claimed.

Paris police were reported to have believed that the passport, and another found at the scene, were fakes made in Turkey.


​Since when did suicide bombers need passports to reach paradise!?
 
Whether they are 'extremist' or not, Islamists will always put their religion before their country. They won't tolerate democracy, is that not 'bigotry'? They see any form of kindness or compassion as a weakness to be exploited, just like the traveling fraternity.
 
Gentlemen this is an open forum, and whilst we all have our own opinions on the subject of terrorists and how these situations should be handled by our respective politicians.

However our thoughts should be with all those people who have lost their lives for no reason, and their families. So please let us show some decorum and not turn this thread into what should be done and who is to blame.

This thread will be closed if further uncalled for remarks are made

Thank you
 
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