French disaster

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I am sorry but most of that is ********
most of Islam? Does that include the hundreds of thousands streaming out of their own country to get away from the radical Islamists who are killing them?!

You don't know, do you? That is the point: these so-called "refugees" have no verifiable identification, much less proof that they are not terrorists. Until you can sort them out, is it not foolish to let them all in?

French citizens? Really? No, as I said, they may be legally in France, but mentally, if they were French citizens, they would not be killing French women and children in the name of a the Islamic State In Syria, would they?

Modern man wants to believe we live in a New Age of peace, love, unicorns and rainbows. The enemies of Western Civilization have no such illusions. Come not to acclimate, but to conquer, and openly brag of it, an how they intend to do it.

Yes, I have know genuine refugees from Lebanon and Syria, Christians who were being exterminated two generations ago. I know Muslims, good ones, some are friends, truly appalled, and staunch American citizens, who understand the U.S. Constitution and have totally bought into the notions of individual liberty and small government of the people. They are the first to tell you how naive and suicidal the leaders of the U.S. and Europe and U.K. are.
 
That is the point: these so-called "refugees" have no verifiable identification, much less proof that they are not terrorists.

Well as a US citizen, you may well be descended from refugees too, no? But more to the point, do you have any proof that you're not a terrorist? What would that even look like? Is there an exam people can take?
 
Well as a US citizen, you may well be descended from refugees too, no? But more to the point, do you have any proof that you're not a terrorist? What would that even look like? Is there an exam people can take?

Are you going to take an exam too PM?
 
Are you going to take an exam too PM?
I don't know, is there one? Look, guys, it sort of all comes down to what sort of country or world you want to live in. I mean if you want to live in a monocultural world where everyone looks and thinks the same, then fine, turn your world into a fortress and that's what you'll have. For a little while. Nice and simple. But the world isn't simple, it's in a million shades of grey. Everywhere there are good people, bad ones and the majority of people just trying to get along.

Personally, I don't want to live in that sort of world. I had always rather assumed that we were improving slowly as a species.

I guess some people don't want peace. They just want a nice, straightforward fight they can try and win.
 
Well as a US citizen, you may well be descended from refugees too, no? But more to the point, do you have any proof that you're not a terrorist? What would that even look like? Is there an exam people can take?
Yes, most of my ancestors were genuine refugees of some sort, mostly religious oppression in Europe. The USA was founded mostly by those seeking religious freedom, contrary to modern teachings.

Do I have proof I am not a terrorist? Certainly. I am a natural born citizen who has at least one FBI background check a year, due to my work. It is not too much to expect anyone coming into a country, for any reason, or any period of time, to prove who they are, and why they are coming, and they are not a public menace.
 
Closing borders etc a knee jerk reaction. I think ....
It's too late , we have generations of extremist Muslims who were born & bred here , British nationals with as much right as you or I .
The whole refugee or economic migrants a whole other debate .

We have these fanatics here , now amongst us , have done for years , yet left yo breed their hate as we are too PC to say anything .

But that aside .... How do you prevent this happening here ?

Paul

If you get intel that they are terrorists or sympathisers you go out and kill them
 
Comparing these people to the entire Muslim population is like comparing Lee Harvey Oswald to the entire Christian religion, or any other gun toting nutter to the religion they may or may not believe in and think he is acting on behalf of

Get over your media fuelled bigotry of a religion

These militant groups make up single digit percentages of the religion they claim to be acting on behalf.
The reason we have migrants all over Europe and the rest of the World streaming out of Syria is for every 1 person they kill in a terrorist attack on "our shores" they are killing 100's of thousands of their own people


this isn't a disaster. Disasters are earthquakes, landslides etc
Tragedy yes, War yes

There are 1.6 billion muslims in the world if 1% are radical muslims that means there are 16 million muslims that need killing quickly
 
Oh now there's a statement that always scares me.

Agreed. Its not usually followed by anything good.

As a parent I used to try and change my approach with my kids to see which worked best. We have tried embracing multiculturalism and in large measure it has worked in this country. If there are those who after all our efforts still choose to follow any ideology that is at odds with ours then I am happy to look for an alternative method.
 
I don't know, is there one? Look, guys, it sort of all comes down to what sort of country or world you want to live in. I mean if you want to live in a monocultural world where everyone looks and thinks the same, then fine, turn your world into a fortress and that's what you'll have. For a little while. Nice and simple. But the world isn't simple, it's in a million shades of grey. Everywhere there are good people, bad ones and the majority of people just trying to get along.

Personally, I don't want to live in that sort of world. I had always rather assumed that we were improving slowly as a species.

I guess some people don't want peace. They just want a nice, straightforward fight they can try and win.

Totally agree. Would you find it difficult to identify where the current risks/danger emanates from?
 
Yes, most of my ancestors were genuine refugees of some sort, mostly religious oppression in Europe. The USA was founded mostly by those seeking religious freedom, contrary to modern teachings.

Do I have proof I am not a terrorist? Certainly. I am a natural born citizen who has at least one FBI background check a year, due to my work. It is not too much to expect anyone coming into a country, for any reason, or any period of time, to prove who they are, and why they are coming, and they are not a public menace.

Three of the 4 7/7 bombers were British born (the fourth being Jamaican, not your likely Islamist extremist background) , one of which worked as a learning mentor in a primary school so would have had a CRB (Criminal Records Bureau) check every year. There is no test and no way to assess everyone in that level of detail.
 
Three of the 4 7/7 bombers were British born (the fourth being Jamaican, not your likely Islamist extremist background) , one of which worked as a learning mentor in a primary school so would have had a CRB (Criminal Records Bureau) check every year. There is no test and no way to assess everyone in that level of detail.

Mohammad Sidique Khan, Shehzad Tanweer, Hasib Mir Hussain. Hmm, yep, they all sound very British. Just goes to show that what's stamped on your passport can be totally irrelevant. British born maybe, but never British.
 
For me the most terrifying thing is that these disturbed, separated from the rest of humanity, brainwashed and quite often simple minded people who somehow manage to suppress the most basic of feelings humans share (compassion, mercy, self preservation etc) do not have the appearance of monsters, and neither do they come with a tag on them so the rest of us can identify them and do something about the threat they represent. They walk the streets like you and me, some of them have families, some of them have everyday jobs. I presume, anyway, as I am in no position to know for sure. At least in the case of Charlie Hebdo and the London attack on Lee Rigby this was the case.


In the case of ex colonial powers people from different creeds, religions or colour have been residing in Europe for decades with little or no trouble at all, at least to my knowledge. I believe the problem has been created relatively recently (in the last 15-20 years) due to the catastrophic foreign policies the people across the pond have pursued and somehow managed to get some European countries involved in too. It gave the minority of Muslims who want to see Europe perish an excuse. It has worked admirably, and unfortunately to Europe's detriment. I suspect there will be very few people who will refute this is the case. I do not doubt that amongst the countless thousands of people coming over to Europe in the last year or two there have been a (hopefully small) number of radicals who are hoping to create havoc by killing, maiming and destroying. cannot help but think that if this was a generic problem, there would have been attacks in Spain, Greece, Italy way before the refugees reached London, Paris, Berlin. The answer as to why this is not the case lays, I believe, in what I mentioned earlier about foreign policies and the plundering of foreign lands, stripping them of oil, minerals etc.

Leaving the political aspect of it out, the most important question, and a very hard one at that, is what do we do now? How do we respond to this? Escalating the bombardments, sending foot soldiers to foreign lands again is, I feel, not only counter productive, but downright stupid. It will almost certainly play in the hands of these maniacs who will see this as a self fulfilled prophecy. They will be able to say that the white man is going over to their lands killing their women and children and the same old stuff that has brought them new recruits and made them a force to be reckoned.

Close the borders all you like. It is the second and third generation people who are here either from the colonies or because of the wars we brought to their homelands that have an idealized view of their holy war. It is the grandchildren of those who came from the subcontinent that have never lived in a hut with no running water that may turn against the west. They are the most vulnerable to predatory mullahs preaching hate in European cities. It is the children who saw the death of their parents/relatives from a drone strike that want revenge.

So, if not bombs, what is the answer? Education, jobs, communication, if you ask me. Obviously for a large number of people this is too late. They are way too radicalised/disenfranchised/angry to see reason. For them a more on hands approach is necessary. For the rest of the population though there is plenty of time. The least contact you have with something/someone different to you, the easier it is to demonise it, the easier it becomes to blame it for things others tell you they are responsible for, the easier it becomes to see them as 'fair game'.

It is a tragic situation we are faced with. Tragic and extremely hard to deal with...

P.S: Pine Marten, for what it's worth, you just topped my list of people I have high esteem for.
 
Agree with all of the above but a lot of these religious groups come in , set up their own areas , ok still no problem, you want to reside with your own .... But refuse to integrate with others then force their religion / beliefs onto you .....there were groups in London wandering around trying to force out sharia law , beating up couples holding hands , etc !
Someone said earlier that Muslims see other faiths as not worthy so are wanting to convert .... If your Muslim fine , but ramming it down my throats the problem .... Who gives them the right to say my lack of religion is wrong .....why can't we respect each other's right and just get on ?

Paul
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "I" word?
"I" started all this with George Bush and my name is Tony Blair?
Only whilst "I" was Middle East peace envoy did The Middle East become the most volatile place on earth.
"I" hope to god that "I" Tony Blair don`t, one day get lifted for war crimes.

"I" for one hope to god that he does. :tiphat:
 
This ain't new. It's a form of warfare that is used by people who cannot wage war in the normal sense of the word by putting big armies in the field and conquering the all powerful states. It's a way for them to strike at enemies when there is no other method.

It was done by those in India wanting independence. It was done by those in Northern Ireland. It was done by the French underground, aided by the British against the conquering Germans. No, it isn't the same and no, not always were innocent civilians targeted, although that isn't new either (Coventry, Dresden and the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan for example). It was done by various peoples throughout history. The Germanic people for example against the Roman Empire, Red Indians against the invading whites both spring to mind.

So whilst acknowledging that those that do this are evil or at least brainwashed and simple and getting angry and wanting retribution is normal and expected, those tasked with doing this and being responsible for our safety I expect have to put such base thoughts out of their minds and devise systems and practices that make us safe as well as being designed to neutralise these threats at source.

In the meantime, we still have those that would rather the government were not allowed to read emails and other electronic messages because it infringes their freedom, even with safeguards in place. All I can say to that is try standing at the pearly gates as those who have been killed in Paris pass through and ask them if their freedom was in any way compromised.
 
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