Game shooting V deer stalking

[howy308]

When you have run a shoot on an Estate and heard all the moaning the game shooters can bring with them if the day does not go just how they want, if it is too windy if it is too wet with the rain, why are the beaters too slow, why are the beaters too fast, why are they going that far out, why are they not going out far enough, why are the ducks not coming closer etc,etc,etc, It puts you off for life. Just to walk out with your rifle in peace and quiet will do for me

 

[MartinH]

Easy. The one to one connection to nature as you sink slowly into a wood or feild and emerse yourself with all the sounds, smells e.t.c. I enjoy my beating, walked up day of the year for the social aspect.

 

[2130martin]

For me Stalking is proper hunter gatherer,far more challenging.......game shooting is like live clay pigeon shooting,you know you will see birds and where they will be flying from and to....

 

[fcp]

And the deer stalking world is really any different?
The problem is that without support from the have a go heroes the shooting world will be under yet more pressure.
As for shooting over-weight tame chickens,a lot depends on where you shoot and the way the birds are/can be presented and as for blood sweat and tears,talk to any keeper worth their salt and you'll see what it's all about.

No doubt at all that the keepers work hard. Guys on the pegs often don't see much of that though

But c'mon, there are an awful lot of people that do an awful lot of things because it has become fashionable and game shooting is among the worst -not only because of the 'aspirational' bit but also because frankly an awful lot of blokes are a just a bit too much 'COD' and like the idea of owning a gun ... I'm not saying they don't enjoy it.. and for many people the social angle is important too (though a turnoff for others). And yes you are right it keep a few hundred thousand very hard working and honest folk employed.

I couldn't honestly say that I welcome the same when it comes to Stalking though... the idea of your average wannabe game shooter wandering around with a CF worries me greatly

 

[Miroku6000]

And the deer stalking world is really any different?
The problem is that without support from the have a go heroes the shooting world will be under yet more pressure.
As for shooting over-weight tame chickens,a lot depends on where you shoot and the way the birds are/can be presented and as for blood sweat and tears,talk to any keeper worth their salt and you'll see what it's all about.

I'm sure stalking has its fair share, hopefully I won't encounter them as stalking is a more solitary sport.

The last syndicate I was on had a lovely piece of East Yorkshire, we put down just over 1000 pheasants, a few duck and a few greys. Average bag was about 60ish over 10 or 11 days sport. Slowly over the last 2 years old members retired and were replaced by "clay" shooters with a few quid who suddenly thought we should be hammering 200 birds a day for small shoot money. In the end the part time keeper said stuff it, half the syndicate left, the landowner pulled the plug and offered it to a new syndicate who snapped his hand off.

Brilliant work guys! Something similar happened on the syndicate I was in 6 years ago as well!

 

[norma 308]

I personally have turned down many invites to shoot game over the years usually making an excuse about work or some such thing but on rare occasions turn down a stalk only when my birds go to wood would this happen as I like to be around .i do enjoy a days driven shooting but I don't get the rush and it's this I really crave .i do enjoy the banter with like minded Shooting folk on a friendly farm shoot but nothing really comes close to stalking .i loved my hawking but this was spoiled by what I thought were the wrong types coming into the sport with more thought for the bags than the birds .it is a rush when yr bird is hard on the heels of a big hare or pheasant .and I think it is this rush that in essence once experienced has to be be repeated at least for me .i have a couple of mates who I know share the same feelings and we all enjoy stalking And sharing the banter and tales together .
the shoot I keeper is the sort where folk are more into the whole day than the standing on pegs they are the regular guns all mates and unchanged for 20 yrs and thier guests who range in ages and ability if I where to be in a shoot this would be the type for me more atmosphere than just putting lead into the stratosphere .
​norma

 

[Malxwal]

Seeing syndicates ruined by those who just want to shoot birds, do now work, have little or no respect for the birds or those that do their fair share of the work during they year. These people should spend their money at commercial shoots.
When it comes to stalking, most of the land I shoot over has a small population of roe, enough to observe and perhaps take a handful over the year, but this has to be done with some sort of management in mind, not just random killing. Beyond that I am happy to pay to stalk where the stalker/guide/owner has a management policy in place, so that I am not hunting in detriment to the population.

 

[tjm160]

Well said Malxwal; the farmer of my permission has never previously let the deer stalking. The herd approaching 20 this year, he felt it was time for some "management". The "professional" stalker who came in bringing all and sundry paying guests with him hasn't managed anything, just cleared the whole bloomin lot. Rant over and sorry this is veering off topic, sadly, there are clearly undesirables in every sport.

 

[CWMMAN3738]

I agree cost is probably a factor but for those who are social animals amongst us game shooting offers something more, I was brought up doing all types of shooting and whilst I have experienced it from both sides I would give up every pheasant of the day for a woodcock & was lucky enough the year before last to get woodcock on every shoot day throughout the season on our syndicate shoot & on the 2 paid days I went on leaving the pheasants for the others & working my dogs mostly.
Stalking is far more peaceful & solitary & there's nothing like taking the gun out in solitude for a peaceful walk with nature & the embrace of her eliments, to clear the mind & remind us of our place in the world, at times getting a deer seems almost inconsequential, it's the being there that counts.
Rough shooting squirrels & rabbits is just great fun as is ratting & foxing on the lamp either seeing how close you can call them or clean kills at good distances are a great rush & challenge.
All aspects of the shooting world excite me, when they don't I will give them up!
It seems from the posts that internal politics puts people off game shooting but it's not much different stalking as you will whitness on here, I wouldn't like to be without any of my country pursuits espically my first love fishing and likewise I love all aspects of it but stocked rainbows least just like pheasants but they can be rewarding at times for a change.
So to sum up no I just think the people doing it have changed & stalking offers more escapeisum for people which seems to be the in thing & needed in today's world I don't think cost is the only factor as many wanna be stalkers out there pay great sums for guns & leases, just like those on game shooting but money isn't everything & as with every sport there are many who come & go only those that understand endure.

 

[User00047]

I think deer stalking is attracting more newcomers because these days it is seen as a more ethical thing to do and is more popular with the media.
The trend is really not helped by folk such as Hugh Fearnley-whittingstall who write cookery books which present deerstalking as a "truly thrilling, close-to-nature experience" compared to a "ten gun, gin and tonic fuelled pheasant massacre" (direct quotes from his book)
I understand the point he tries to make but what he fails to mention is that driven shooting can be equally sporting, is a very important part of our British heritage, is a traditional way of taking large numbers of keepered birds, is good for the economy and good for the countryside.
I have never been on a driven day because I cannot justify spending that sort of money on one day, but if other people want to spend their hard-earned on it (or do it for free) then great.
For me, rough shooting is a very close second behind deer stalking and I can walk all day, any day, with dog and shotgun on farmland in winter in search of snipe, golden plover, woodcock, rabbit, pheasant, pigeon, duck, et cetera, without a moment of boredom.

 

[Malxwal]

TJM, as you mentioned that, I shoot in another syndicate over 4500-5000 acres. The roe stalking is let to a private company. We were told £6.5k if we wanted it. There are roe everywhere, daytime or nighttime, which just stand and look at you from 30 yards away. I somehow get the feeling that only the occasional buck is shot by high paying visitors. In this case I would say the money is not going into the welfare of the animal population, but it's only my hunch.

Oh, and my sentiments exactly CWMAN !

 

[Irish Bob]

Exactly the situation I am in. Been shooting since I was a lad, driven pheasant for the last ten years.

Over the last 3 or 4 I have noticed more "have a go heroes" in the driven game world who know sod all about anything apart from shooting the birds.

Twice now I have been in good syndicates ruined by these sorts of people. Last one folded last season. My plan now is to do DSC1 this year, apply for deer calibre and get into stalking having done a bit over 15 years ago. I will still take a few small driven days with friends back up in Scotland.

This is the type of thing I was referring to. For the avoidance of doubt I am not referring to small days, walked up days or anything similar, all of which I participate in.

There are a group of people with no connection to or understanding of the land, no respect of the quarry, or those who worked hard to raise them, and who see game birds no differently to clay pigeons, save that one costs £30 a pop and is worth bragging about.

I think to properly enjoy and understand field sports you need to have an understanding of and an interest in nature and the land.

That said I don't think I would have a much of a problem doing a driven day with the members on here so that probably gives you the answer in a long winded way.

​

 

[Irish Bob]

Seeing syndicates ruined by those who just want to shoot birds, do now work, have little or no respect for the birds or those that do their fair share of the work during they year. These people should spend their money at commercial shoots.
When it comes to stalking, most of the land I shoot over has a small population of roe, enough to observe and perhaps take a handful over the year, but this has to be done with some sort of management in mind, not just random killing. Beyond that I am happy to pay to stalk where the stalker/guide/owner has a management policy in place, so that I am not hunting in detriment to the population.

Very well put.

 

[Tom270]

I have had a couple of days paid driven shooting and while there is no such thing as a bad days shooting and I did have a good time in good company with the traditions of the day its just not for me. As someone who started with an airgun as a child and have in general pitted my wits and patience against the quarry eventually I came to stalking some what late. However the skill and precision of rifle shooting, acquiring the skills of stalking and the whole ethos is the ultimate in hunting and why when presented with my first deer at 30 yards from a high seat I did not shoot. Those of us who have these opportunities are very fortunate.

 

[swarovski]

It was a progression thing for me too, stalking does it for me though long range target shooting is very close second

 

[Bomag]

I mustve helped on one of the few decent Shoots, birds are high and hard to hit, all are sold to the game dealer or beaters, only a few days are sold and they only go to "known" parties, the rest are shot by the owner and his family/guests. We have had some top people shooting there and none have had their heads buried in their butts. The days averaged 500 birds, but we put down 12000 plus birds, this kept 40 beaters, plus 12 dog men picking up, plus loaders and a few others, not forgetting 2 fulltime Keepers employed, something you cant knock in this age of high unemployment.

Now I live in Wales and I cant even get onto a Shoot as a beater, it looks like I will be taking a few trips back to Surrey just so my cocker gets some work this season

 

[bobt]

I love the craic on a game shoot with friends, however a 150 -200 bird driven day leaves me cold, may as well shoot clays,

on the other hand being out and about on my own stalking is excellent.

 

[Wills]

​I envy you.My dad was a ship designer and very much anti-gun!

My dad was an jet engine draftsman, was mother who wanted to go stalking. I was never forced but they did admit it may have been a but of a challenge if I was interested in football. Mainly did game and the usual pest control but was around deer since young. As got older, went with dad and then got fac at 21. They lived on a Scottish island as game managers in the 70s and actually rented the land on Arran before basic tool the leases. This is when it was cheap ofcourse.

 

[bewsher500]

grew up with both so difficult to comment from experience
but what I can see is a distinct lack of "clique" in stalking

you pay you money and off you go
no stalkers really care is you turn up in full "Real Tree", jeans and a fleece or anything inbetween.
you can get your own ground and get away from it all without any pressure or hassle

​
not quite the same with bought days on pheasants partridges etc

You still get lots of "all the gear and no-idea" types in any sport.

 

[Pine Marten]

I'd like to expand this query, but that may warrant an entire new thread: I'm not aware of the existence of any sort of map of the UK fieldsports landscape. By which I mean, I have no idea how many people participate in which sorts of shooting, and how much. GunsOnPegs conducted quite a comprehensive survey recently but that was really only about the commercial driven shoot sector, as that's their business. It was really a piece of market research, so fair enough. The BASC has been conduction their Gamebook survey for a couple of years, but I've never seen the results. Have they been published? I suppose most people do a bit of several sorts of shooting, but I can't believe that most shooters can afford commercial driven shooting regularly, so there must be a hell of a lot of informal DIY shoots with modest bags run on goodwill and elbow grease, a lot shooters for whom wildfowling, flight ponds or ferreting are their mainstays.

If there is no such available research, I think it would be useful to conduct it. I'm looking at our BASC friends here, I think...