Gas and electricity profits

paultap

Well-Known Member
Hi Guys

With gas and electricity prices sky rocketing, It would surely be reasonable to ask just how much (or little) profit these utility companies are actually making. The regulator seems to have played into their hands by effectively allowing them to hugely Increase their prices, potentially on a 3 monthly basis, however, are these increases actually fully justified?

The regulator apparently justifies the huge increases in order to protect the supplying companies from going bust. But just how much or little profit is actually being made I wonder?

There are two parts to the price cap, the Standing charge, which is effectively what the companies can charge to deliver the gas and electricity to our houses, (charged in pence per day) and the unit charge, which is what they can charge in pence per unit (per KWH) on the amount of gas and electricity that we actually use.

In the uk, over the years, our government has naively refused to subsidise the cost of gas storage repairs, which has dramatically reduced the amount of gas storage available here. This now makes buying large quantities of gas, when the price is low and storing it for future use, a non entity.

We apparently only have enough storage to meet the demand for about 4 to 5 days of winter use, about 1% of Europes total storage. Germany has 16 times the storage capacity of what we now have. Part of the reasoning appears to be our governments infatuation with so called green renewable energy and the reduction of gas dependency. With little being done to increase the number of nuclear power stations, so much for that idea!

The government also has their sticky fingers in the pie as increased profits from these companies, mean that they can collect far more revenue by way of corporation tax, which is a tax on the profits being made.

The same argument applies to fuel prices, ie what we are being charged for petrol, diesel and heating oil etc. In this instance, It appears that the likes of BP and Shell, sit back earning vast profits because the price we pay is directly linked to the global price of crude oil per barrel, whether in fact there is actually a shortage or not. In effect, potentially blatantly profiteering using the war in Ukraine as a catalyst to increase prices.

what are your thoughts I wonder?
 
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EON Customers get 100% renewable energy, according to their ads on the TV, do they therefore get it cheaper?, I don't think so, is the ad the truth, I don't think so either.
Also take into account the high price of Fuel, and utilities mean more income for the Govt, makes you think what it will be like when the Govt lose the duty on fuel when we all go electric, cars and homes, Maybe they are testing us out to see how we respond, to these high tarrifs. The utility companies make enough profits well before these price hikes, and had no need to put up the standing charges.
 
renewable energy is not always green, they can trade carbon or some such commodity to make it look green, it was on the radio a year or so back. but i guess if you google it the details can be found.

As for fuel prices bring kept high, may be the hidden agenda is to help drive up the sales of electric cars.
 
I don’t believe in the government interfering in any market place, whether through caps or subsidies. Supply and demand should dictate pricing.
 
I am struggling to understand how energy companies can justify these huge price rises when their profits have surged so much. Why are they saying that we have to pay these extortionate prices when they are making such huge profits already hence driving so many people and households into poverty. I "googled" the question "How much profits are UK energy companies making" and this is what I came up with for just british Gas:

British Gas owner Centrica said adjusted operating profit for the six months ending in June rose to £1.34bn from £262m a year earlier. The rise in profits came from the company's nuclear and oil and gas business, rather than from the British Gas energy supply business which performed much worse.28 Jul 2022.

This is just one company and I am sure that most if not all of the other energy companies will show similar results! With that being the case how are these price rises justified to "general households" and why is the government not stepping in and saying enough. Putting a price cap on things and then allowing that price cap to be raised is simply not acceptable? Making money for the government in taxes from these energy companies is all well and good but not if the result of that is that a great many homes are now struggling with poverty because of the energy price rises!
 
When people talk about poverty in the Uk I am confused. I have been to Africa many times and I have seen real poverty I.e. starvation etc

In a country where obesity is such a big killer, where everyone has a smart phone, sky TV, can afford to go on holiday (airports are crazy busy), where most cars are purchased on credit, where there is the provision of social housing, are people really living in poverty?

Earlier this year there were mores job vacancies than unemployed and whilst I know that is not such a straight forward statistic it does go to show that the general public cannot be arsed to work.

I’m pretty sure that people are still spending plenty on cigarettes and booze as I’ve not heard if a slump in sales following the announcement of this cost of living crisis.

I would suspect most people struggling with energy bills probably have their priorities wrong.
 
British Gas owner Centrica said adjusted operating profit for the six months ending in June rose to £1.34bn from £262m a year earlier.
Great news 👍. Five times more taxes to be collected to help pay for government services like the NHS.

Maybe if we are going down the line of government control we should nationalise the energy companies? It worked really well in Russia and it definitely lifted the people out of poverty 😂
 
Hi Guys

With gas and electricity prices sky rocketing, It would surely be reasonable to ask just how much (or little) profit these utility companies are actually making. The regulator seems to have played into their hands by effectively allowing them to hugely Increase their prices, potentially on a 3 monthly basis, however, are these increases actually fully justified?

The regulator apparently justifies the huge increases in order to protect the supplying companies from going bust. But just how much or little profit is actually being made I wonder?

There are two parts to the price cap, the Standing charge, which is effectively what the companies can charge to deliver the gas and electricity to our houses, (charged in pence per day) and the unit charge, which is what they can charge in pence per unit (per KWH) on the amount of gas and electricity that we actually use.

In the uk, over the years, our government has naively refused to subsidise the cost of gas storage repairs, which has dramatically reduced the amount of gas storage available here. This now makes buying large quantities of gas, when the price is low and storing it for future use, a non entity.

We apparently only have enough storage to meet the demand for about 4 to 5 days of winter use, about 1% of Europes total storage. Germany has 16 times the storage capacity of what we now have. Part of the reasoning appears to be our governments infatuation with so called green renewable energy and the reduction of gas dependency. With little being done to increase the number of nuclear power stations, so much for that idea!

The government also has their sticky fingers in the pie as increased profits from these companies, mean that they can collect far more revenue by way of corporation tax, which is a tax on the profits being made.

The same argument applies to fuel prices, ie what we are being charged for petrol, diesel and heating oil etc. In this instance, It appears that the likes of BP and Shell, sit back earning vast profits because the price we pay is directly linked to the global price of crude oil per barrel, whether in fact there is actually a shortage or not. In effect, potentially blatantly profiteering using the war in Ukraine as a catalyst to increase prices.

what are your thoughts I wonder?
As company if I could store huge amounts of gas bought cheaply I would still sell at today’s prices. Companies exist to make profits, even if the UK was 100% self sufficient, it wouldn’t protect the consumer, put simply if I could sell to Europe at £3/unit why would I sell it any cheaper to the UK? Supply and demand, the highest bidders will always dictate the price.

Many companies did well during the covid lockdowns, builders merchants for one, but their sales are struggling now as people cut back on the non essentials like home improvements, all markets are cyclical it wasn’t that long ago that oil prices were at an all time low.

My own personal view is that I need to insulate myself from the ups and downs of the energy markets. I need to make my home as energy efficient as possible, some years ago I installed panels to heat water. During the summer months it meets all out hot water and heating demands. The house is very well insulated so the next avenue to explore is solar panels for energy and power storage.
 
There was an item in one of the radio programmes at the weekend where the interviewee stated, that even with diesel the price it is, it is actuall cheaper to run a diesel generator to supply your electricity than buy “green electricity”
 
There was an item in one of the radio programmes at the weekend where the interviewee stated, that even with diesel the price it is, it is actuall cheaper to run a diesel generator to supply your electricity than buy “green electricity”
Wouldnt surprise me if that was true....
We have 13 solar panels on our roof, on a good day they power everything without the meter even moving, so thats - a hot tub, routers, fridge freezer, fridge, sky, routers, cctv, security cameras, house alarm and anything else the kids have left on..
So if every house now being built had to have 13 panels fitted (obviously less on smaller homes) what would that do to the fat cat energy firms? And why is not already being done?
Renewable energy doesnt have to be wind turbines and solar farms, its just a bigger earner for fat cats that way, always comes down to who can profit and by how much.
 
When people talk about poverty in the Uk I am confused. I have been to Africa many times and I have seen real poverty I.e. starvation etc


Earlier this year there were mores job vacancies than unemployed and whilst I know that is not such a straight forward statistic it does go to show that the general public cannot be arsed to work.

I’m pretty sure that people are still spending plenty on cigarettes and booze as I’ve not heard if a slump in sales following the announcement of this cost of living crisis.
Not an argument but just a different view on your points.

Just because there is worse poverty elsewhere doesn't mean poverty here isn't real or not serious. We shouldn't be setting the bar at 3rd world poverty and anything over that is all hunky dory.

There being more jobs than people looking for work doesn't mean the population is lazy. I have a job but am looking to go elsewhere but the majority of jobs are asking unrealistic skills and experience for what they're paying. Some jobs have even asked for 10+ years experience in software that isn't even 5 years old! Now we get to the biggest bugbear, benefits! The Government decides that with inflation etc you need X amount to survive on with a family of two adults and two young kids. If minimum wage (or even a lot of public sector jobs requiring degrees and qualifications) pay less than the benefits you literally can't afford to work. Benefits have gone up(more or less) in line with inflation and housing but wages haven't, especially the lowest paying jobs so that shows that the benefits are a more accurate reflection of what is needed while pay to compensate workers isn't realistic.

If some of us have had a **** day what do we like to do to relax and take the edge off? Have a drink or a smoke. If you're constantly in debt or struggling with mental health problems because your life is just a mess then I don't blame you for wanting a little luxury to make the day go by easier.

Granted some people dont help themselves but the majority of people are a product of their circumstances. Born into a rich educated family, you're gonna be ok and end up also being wealthy. Born into a poor family in a rough inner city chances are that's where you'll end up too.

The worst part of all of this is you have the better off middle and upper classes blaming the poor workshy plebs for all the countries problems while being conveniently blinded by the fact the the richest members of society are getting richer and richer and doing all they can to further that divide.

Its obscene that the richest 5 people in the world own more wealth than half the global population.
 
When people talk about poverty in the Uk I am confused. I have been to Africa many times and I have seen real poverty I.e. starvation etc

In a country where obesity is such a big killer, where everyone has a smart phone, sky TV, can afford to go on holiday (airports are crazy busy), where most cars are purchased on credit, where there is the provision of social housing, are people really living in poverty?

Earlier this year there were mores job vacancies than unemployed and whilst I know that is not such a straight forward statistic it does go to show that the general public cannot be arsed to work.

I’m pretty sure that people are still spending plenty on cigarettes and booze as I’ve not heard if a slump in sales following the announcement of this cost of living crisis.

I would suspect most people struggling with energy bills probably have their priorities wrong.

Spot on when you see real poverty it shocks you to the core. The fact is we normalised debt and facilitate bad/irresponsible behaviour. Saw some women moaning that her universal credit doesn’t cover her bills with two kids. Quite clearly never worked a day in her life just expects a handout.
 
Granted some people dont help themselves but the majority of people are a product of their circumstances. Born into a rich educated family, you're gonna be ok and end up also being wealthy. Born into a poor family in a rough inner city chances are that's where you'll end up too.
Rubbish, there’s hardly an excuse.

There’s no substitute for hard work. I know where I want to be in 20-30 years time and I’m not getting there by sitting on my hole smoking fags and drinking alcohol every day. Last time we were hiring we could hardly get anyone, not asking for a fancy degree or a rocket scientist just someone with a willingness to get stuck in and give it they’re all.

I spent the first half of my life with my family in debt paying off our farm in Scotland having moved from Northern Ireland where our holding there was 18 times smaller. Growing up I’ve had nothing fancy but I’ve been taught that with persistence and hard work so much is possible.

Some of these people are too lazy to help themselves, indulging in things that only exacerbates their own situation. It’s very corny but it’s true “dreams don’t work unless you do”.

We all get the same 24 hours to shine!!!
 
I am struggling to understand how energy companies can justify these huge price rises when their profits have surged so much. Why are they saying that we have to pay these extortionate prices when they are making such huge profits already hence driving so many people and households into poverty. I "googled" the question "How much profits are UK energy companies making" and this is what I came up with for just british Gas:

British Gas owner Centrica said adjusted operating profit for the six months ending in June rose to £1.34bn from £262m a year earlier. The rise in profits came from the company's nuclear and oil and gas business, rather than from the British Gas energy supply business which performed much worse.28 Jul 2022.

This is just one company and I am sure that most if not all of the other energy companies will show similar results! With that being the case how are these price rises justified to "general households" and why is the government not stepping in and saying enough. Putting a price cap on things and then allowing that price cap to be raised is simply not acceptable? Making money for the government in taxes from these energy companies is all well and good but not if the result of that is that a great many homes are now struggling with poverty because of the energy price rises!
Because they buy energy on the open market..... these are publicly traded companies with a FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY to their shareholders. They are there to make money and to pay dividends. Its called capitalism. If you dont like it, you might be more comfortable moving to a place where there are alternatives.

How many homes are insulated properly? The number one change that could reduce annual bills.

You can put in price caps, then have zero infrastucture investment. You can have government impose windfall taxes, same thing. We are asking for the Rough gas storage site to return to operational capacity. This costs money. Where do you think this comes from? The consumer paying for it.

There is no magic money tree.
 
My electricity trebled
And I have a 3.9kw /16x panels on the roof …. Couple that with I’m told we supply you green renewables energy …. So it’s not being held back by Putin etc
So WHY are my prices trebled ?🥴🤔
Woman on phone couldn’t answer … I suggested that as they could do it surely I could up / treble my feed in tarrif price and charge them more ….. bloody should be able to

Paul
 
Rubbish, there’s hardly an excuse.

There’s no substitute for hard work. I know where I want to be in 20-30 years time and I’m not getting there by sitting on my hole smoking fags and drinking alcohol every day. Last time we were hiring we could hardly get anyone, not asking for a fancy degree or a rocket scientist just someone with a willingness to get stuck in and give it they’re all.

I spent the first half of my life with my family in debt paying off our farm in Scotland having moved from Northern Ireland where our holding there was 18 times smaller. Growing up I’ve had nothing fancy but I’ve been taught that with persistence and hard work so much is possible.

Some of these people are too lazy to help themselves, indulging in things that only exacerbates their own situation. It’s very corny but it’s true “dreams don’t work unless you do”.

We all get the same 24 hours to shine!!!
Well I'm not sure if you've completely missed what I was saying on purpose or not.

We may all have the same 24hrs in a day but we certainly don't all start the day with the same resources.

As you pointed out you had enough family money to own/lease a farm and the ability to move somewhere for a new opportunity and a stable family unit to work together and support each other on said farm.

I get that you worked hard and pulled yourself up by your bootstraps working 25hrs a day, 8 days a week and had nothing to do with how you started out in life or the support network you had🙄😂
 
Well I'm not sure if you've completely missed what I was saying on purpose or not.

We may all have the same 24hrs in a day but we certainly don't all start the day with the same resources.

As you pointed out you had enough family money to own/lease a farm and the ability to move somewhere for a new opportunity and a stable family unit to work together and support each other on said farm.

I get that you worked hard and pulled yourself up by your bootstraps working 25hrs a day, 8 days a week and had nothing to do with how you started out in life or the support network you had🙄😂
I haven’t said anything about the only way to lift yourself out of poverty is to borrow tons of money and buy a farm. Im just saying that the vastest preponderance of these people are totally unwilling to work never mind work hard.

It certainly doesn’t take any great amount of resources to get a job -don’t tell me minimum wage isn’t sufficient because I've been on minimum wage and there’s nothing wrong with it- so yes I guess not everyone does start their 24 hours the same. Hard working sensible people usually start early with clear objectives; meanwhile the lazy, overweight leeches are still in their pit awaiting a long hard day in front of their 60”TV to watch trash, eat junk, speak shite and avoid getting a job at all costs!
 
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