Benelli m2
Well-Known Member
Front page of telegraph gun laws Ms Cooper
Just read it
Just read it
Gun laws daily telegraph
- Thread starter Benelli m2
- Start date
FFS just read the most stupid sentence I've ever seen
“I believe that one viable option would be for anyone wishing to purchase a firearm to provide documented confirmation from the police service that they have a legitimate entitlement to own a firearm
Ms cooper...
I also believe that's reasonable
I also believe that's exactly the system we have at the moment
@Conor O'Gorman , will BASC be contacting the home office about this?
Can't fault that, really.
His last sentence hits the nail on the head.
Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
Under 21,s should have no access to the internet or mobile phones
We have more rights to our guns than they do to a phone or computer, and they cause more damage due to this things
We have more rights to our guns than they do to a phone or computer, and they cause more damage due to this things
Bone question but… haven’t we had a national database for the last 10 or so years?? “FLiMSys”
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
I have sent this, just now, to my MP. Others are welcome to perhaps construct similar?
I hope, ask, please that you will forward this to the Home Secretary for her response, after you have read it. I am writing about concern raised this week over a forged Shotgun Certificate being used to enable a series of wicked murders and intended murders.
My comments are based on having held a Firearm Certificate since 1976 and a Shotgun Certificate since 1978 or thereabouts and having been a Registered Firearms Dealer for some twenty plus years until 2002.
The old system that existed previous to the requirement that all transactions be "face to face" was in fact more safe in preventing the acquisition of a weapon by means of a forged document. At distance a seller was always able to make a telephone call, during office hours, to the buyer's police force and check the bona fides.
With face to face, especially if bought outside office hours one presently cannot.
So what's the answer? Maybe a 24/7 contact number (which could indeed be the usual number to the relevant police force's control room) whereby on giving the supposed FAC's or SGC's unique number its validity can be confirmed?
These records can be accessed 24/7 even if the force's Firearms Licensing Department is closed after 4pm or on weekends. As anyone who has an FAC or SGC will know if they have ever been stopped by the police, at any hour, when driving their motor vehicle.
The vendor calls in and asks to verify the validity of the buyer's FAC or SGC. This is required to be done out of earshot of the potential buyer. So for example by the vendor taking the document into the vehicle they have travelled in to meet the buyer. Or by asking the buyer to wait in their vehicle outside the vendor's house.
The vendor is asked, straightaway, their name, address and their present location from where they are making the telephone call from. That may be the vendor's home, a game fair, a clay pigeon shooting ground, or indeed their car at the place where the buyer is at if the vendor has travelled to meet the buyer.
The vendor is then asked to give, simply, the unique number that is printed on each FAC or SGC and the bearer's name. The force control room will then tell the vendor the address and date of birth that the document should be carrying. And even perhaps a description of the photograph that each FAC and SGC carries of its holder. Such as "They are wearing a red shirt in the picture."
The force control room can then conform withthe vendor that this is a genuine document. If it is not because the location where the vendor was calling from was stated at the start of the call then the force control room can initiate a police response.
I hope that this is of help and use to the Home Secretary and to yourself.
I hope, ask, please that you will forward this to the Home Secretary for her response, after you have read it. I am writing about concern raised this week over a forged Shotgun Certificate being used to enable a series of wicked murders and intended murders.
My comments are based on having held a Firearm Certificate since 1976 and a Shotgun Certificate since 1978 or thereabouts and having been a Registered Firearms Dealer for some twenty plus years until 2002.
The old system that existed previous to the requirement that all transactions be "face to face" was in fact more safe in preventing the acquisition of a weapon by means of a forged document. At distance a seller was always able to make a telephone call, during office hours, to the buyer's police force and check the bona fides.
With face to face, especially if bought outside office hours one presently cannot.
So what's the answer? Maybe a 24/7 contact number (which could indeed be the usual number to the relevant police force's control room) whereby on giving the supposed FAC's or SGC's unique number its validity can be confirmed?
These records can be accessed 24/7 even if the force's Firearms Licensing Department is closed after 4pm or on weekends. As anyone who has an FAC or SGC will know if they have ever been stopped by the police, at any hour, when driving their motor vehicle.
The vendor calls in and asks to verify the validity of the buyer's FAC or SGC. This is required to be done out of earshot of the potential buyer. So for example by the vendor taking the document into the vehicle they have travelled in to meet the buyer. Or by asking the buyer to wait in their vehicle outside the vendor's house.
The vendor is asked, straightaway, their name, address and their present location from where they are making the telephone call from. That may be the vendor's home, a game fair, a clay pigeon shooting ground, or indeed their car at the place where the buyer is at if the vendor has travelled to meet the buyer.
The vendor is then asked to give, simply, the unique number that is printed on each FAC or SGC and the bearer's name. The force control room will then tell the vendor the address and date of birth that the document should be carrying. And even perhaps a description of the photograph that each FAC and SGC carries of its holder. Such as "They are wearing a red shirt in the picture."
The force control room can then conform withthe vendor that this is a genuine document. If it is not because the location where the vendor was calling from was stated at the start of the call then the force control room can initiate a police response.
I hope that this is of help and use to the Home Secretary and to yourself.
If Dave Doogan actually bothered his arse to respond to his constituents I would. However, my last two emails have been ignored, despite repeated reminders
skippy1001
Well-Known Member
I tried to contact two separate forces for verification of potential buyers recently- one force was totally online and I was met with a brick wall of a webshite that just sent you round in loops. The other only took calls between 10am and 12 three days a week. A total shambles. I am not asking for yet more taxpayers money to be spent on the FL service but with the increase in our licensing fees I at least expect to be able to call a FLO between 9 and 5 weekdays.
A total shame. I feel sorry to all involved, the lost family and the individual that sold the SG. They must be struggling with that on their conscience.
Skipp
A total shame. I feel sorry to all involved, the lost family and the individual that sold the SG. They must be struggling with that on their conscience.
Skipp
markyw
Well-Known Member
I posted this to my shooting club forums yesterday. Someone came back pretty quickly with images of their certs under a black light to confirm what can be seen.
After the news today of the guy buying a shotgun with a fake certificate, thought this may be useful to anyone intending to buy or sell a shotgun or firearm.
www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk
Regards
Mark
After the news today of the guy buying a shotgun with a fake certificate, thought this may be useful to anyone intending to buy or sell a shotgun or firearm.
Know your UK firearms documents
Project RUTIC is the NCA response to the rising threat of fraudulent copies of firearms documents being used in an atte...
Regards
Mark
Oracle
Well-Known Member
No…Scotland has a different system….SHOGUN
Are now there’s a thing… they also have licensing for air guns too don’t they!?
Yeah but who has a black light on them when they’re checking a licence? Perhaps using a hologram &/or embossed paper would be an improvement?I posted this to my shooting club forums yesterday. Someone came back pretty quickly with images of their certs under a black light to confirm what can be seen.
After the news today of the guy buying a shotgun with a fake certificate, thought this may be useful to anyone intending to buy or sell a shotgun or firearm.
Know your UK firearms documents
Project RUTIC is the NCA response to the rising threat of fraudulent copies of firearms documents being used in an atte...
Regards
Mark
Perhaps that the issue. UV torches can be had off Amazon for £5 delivered and most shops now have a desk-based one for checking forged notes. Given most of us do relatively few personal sales, why shouldn't we as certificate holders be expected to do the checks shown in their NCA video. I now I will be doing so now going forward and I fully accept that this is with hindsight, but I would suggest its not an unreasonable ask of certificate holders to do those checks.
I believe that hologram and embossed papers are easier to fake that the special papers used for these certificate but arguably, like passports these could be added as well.
IMHO, being able to phone a national Police helpline would be far better but that I suggest will only come as part of moving to a proper fully integrated National Firearms Licensing system which will take years to develop and set up.
Unless you are deaf!
Anyone that is a member of a different shooting org to BASC, have you received any information on if they are contacting MP's or anything?
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