Had enough of bureaucracy

When compared to other facets of rural life in the UK, I find the whole venison processing and retailing thing to be refreshingly free from excessive bureaucracy.
But Tim, we are thankfully free from the additional autocracy and complications of having to have a Scottish Venison Dealer's Licence. I feel for Stuart and Paul as I'm in a similar position, but thankfully am unfettered by the Scottish dimension.

There are no AGHE around me here that provide a sensible outlet for my carcasses and my stalking was becoming increasingly constrained by my ability to deal with the carcasses. Whilst GUTG provided an outlet for some, I was still butchering many so what do you do with the products? I'm "blessed" to have my eldest daughter still living with at home and she is a stunning game cook, producing fine dining night after night so we do eat a lot. I gift much to "friends and family" but it was only late last year that I turned a corner when the results of cold-calling a local farm shop and a restaurant resulted in a fairly constant demand. Coupled with that, I too have been doing a monthly farmer's market in the village since the beginning of the year and like Stuart, have felt the "pressure" to cull sufficient in the run-up that to have stock to trade. Indeed, I had to call in a favour a couple of months ago from a colleague for 2 fallow prickets just to get sufficient product, something our Scottish colleagues cannot do legally!

The last market was cancelled at short notice but I have just managed to sell the 80-odd packets produced for that, mostly through the farm shop. Whilst I do worry that the market stall opportunity is going to be lost after my investment in banners, table-tops, chilled display, etc, in some ways I won't miss that pressure and the nights spent in the immediate run up to them butchering and packing. An added complication to this is the now present "fallow gap" until 1 Aug given a fallow makes 3 times my typical roe products. Maybe our Scottish colleagues have a reverse "bonus" with the change in red seasons.

As I've argued elsewhere on here, where is the joined-up strategy needed to increase venison sales? The Government in way of stewardship and forestry grants are promoting greater numbers of deer, paying for chillers and even carcass bounties in some areas but nothing is being done to stimulate appetite for venison amongst consumers. There are some great initiatives out there but unless there are improved outlets for carcasses and product, I cannot see this ever being more than a marginal business. Accordingly, I see the sales I do make as a way of subsidising my stalking whilst allowing me to do my bit to better manage deer numbers in the areas I am fortunate to stalk. I registered as a limited company and my returns have shown a consistent but thankfully reducing loss. Reclaiming input VAT helps, but many others simply wouldn't bear that these costs or graft.
 
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So sorry chap. Sharing in case not aware of this initiative and may be of passing interest / help:

 
So sorry chao. Sharing in case not aware of this initiative and may be of passing interest / help:

Like the BQWV scheme, which I tried to register immediately after it was "launched" at the FC's excellent Worcester conference, I too signed up and created a presence on the Open Food Network's UK Venison page the night of the BDS launch. Since that point, nothing! No contact, sales or interest :banghead:
 
It shouldn't be complex! The only real difference is we must hold a dealers license.

The sticking point is that for the likes of @sauer and myself, in order to maintain a consistent supply of venison we either need to be out shooting deer, or to buy in carcasses from other stalkers. Which is EXACTLY what the dealers license states we can do under it's terms. Those terms are then contradicted by the Wild Game Guide rules for small quantity production for primary producers. It's a convoluted, unnecessarily prohibitive set of legislative pitfalls that constantly contradict themselves and lead to confusion. If all I was doing was producing venison that I've shot myself then it's as simple as you find it. As we hold full time jobs though, trying to run as a small part time business is proving to be prohibitive.
According to the following extract from the FSA guide, a stalker can sell in-skin carcasses, within certain geographical restrictions, to a local retailer who supplies directly to the final consumer.
Therefore, it stands to reason that a small local retailer (such as you or I) can buy in-skin carcasses from stalkers within the same geographically restricted area.
Is it the same in the Scottish version of the guide?
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Your market position is slightly simpler, as you produce your venison products from your own deer.
I shoot and process wild deer too. There is no legal difference between wild and park deer.
 
Like the BQWV scheme, which I tried to register immediately after it was "launched" at the FC's excellent Worcester conference, I too signed up and created a presence on the Open Food Network's UK Venison page the night of the BDS launch. Since that point, nothing! No contact, sales or interest :banghead:
I hear that! I signed up too. I'm also a member of Appetite for Angus, the Angus Tourism Cooperative, and a couple of other local schemes. With absolutely zero result.

People who buy from me absolutely love the products, and I have many repeat customers at the markets I was attending. There's a real demand for wild venison, but at the same time there's apathy and disinterest from the authorities that could actually do so much to help promote it. Paul and myself have put huge efforts into complying with legislation, building our butcheries and investing in equipment, machinery, packaging, etc, and it seems completely obtuse of the authorities to place so many obstacles in front of us.
 
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It shouldn't be complex! The only real difference is we must hold a dealers license.

The sticking point is that for the likes of @sauer and myself, in order to maintain a consistent supply of venison we either need to be out shooting deer, or to buy in carcasses from other stalkers. Which is EXACTLY what the dealers license states we can do under it's terms. Those terms are then contradicted by the Wild Game Guide rules for small quantity production for primary producers. It's a convoluted, unnecessarily prohibitive set of legislative pitfalls that constantly contradict themselves and lead to confusion. If all I was doing was producing venison that I've shot myself then it's as simple as you find it. As we hold full time jobs though, trying to run as a small part time business is proving to be prohibitive.

Your market position is slightly simpler, as you produce your venison products from your own deer.
The either EU or Brexit rules afterwards enforcers of said rules have rarely put a knife on a carcass too.
 
According to the following extract from the FSA guide, a stalker can sell in-skin carcasses, within certain geographical restrictions, to a local retailer who supplies directly to the final consumer.
Therefore, it stands to reason that a small local retailer (such as you or I) can buy in-skin carcasses from stalkers within the same geographically restricted area.
That's exactly what I thought too. That we were covered under the 'small quantities' restrictions. Then we had this brought to our intention. My initial interpretation of that was that the personally performing the gralloch was competent and also satisfied the 'played and active part' criteria. (Section 4.4 of the guide) We were unequivocally told it didn't though. So unless we shoot it ourselves, or are present when it was shot, it's off limits unless we're an AGHE

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That's exactly what I thought too. That we were covered under the 'small quantities' restrictions. Then we had this brought to our intention. My initial interpretation of that was that the personally performing the gralloch was competent and also satisfied the 'played and active part' criteria. (Section 4.4 of the guide) We were unequivocally told it didn't though. So unless we shoot it ourselves, or are present when it was shot, it's off limits unless we're an AGHE

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There is no section 4.4 in my version of the guide. So presumably that's the difference.
 
Yes. I've just looked at the guide for England, Wales, and Ireland. As usual, our idiotic shower of morons have to be different.
Can you not get away with it under the "retail to retail" exemption, if the person you're buying from is also registered as a food business?
(Not sure if that's in your version?)
 
Bit of a rant I'm afraid.

Last year the majority of my stalking was in the three weeks or so prior to local markets. It reached the point where it became a necessary chore and I felt under so much pressure that the enjoyment was lost. I was out for myself last weekend though, and it brought home to me just why I put my butchery together. I have a buck in the chiller, it's purely for us, and I'm actually looking forward to dealing with it!

I don't make a lot of money from markets to be honest, even though I mostly end up sold-out. My intention was to put local wild venison on people's radar, but despite so many making encouraging noises my efforts were largely met with apathy, indifference, and the inevitable and infuriating HG/imported venison/ supermarket argument. Another massive issue is just how hamstrung the rules and regulations have made me. For example, despite holding all the correct certification, including the Scottish requirement for a Venison Dealers License, I'm not allowed to buy in carcasses from qualified stalkers and process them for sale without being forced down the AGHE route. Nor can I offer local smallholders a butchery service for one or two sheep, or a pig. My most recent inspector told me I can no longer offer pulled pork or pork sausage either, as this would mean I was no longer mainly trading in venison. This is despite the Council being aware of exactly what I produce for the last three years.

I reckon I may just about have broken even with what I've spent, with possibly a slight slant to being in the black. HMRC will remain untroubled by my endeavours though, as I suspect if I worked out what my hourly rate has been it would break my heart.

Three years of busting my ass that has seen me just about break even is enough punishment, and I'm going to call it a day at that. I've committed to the Highland Games at Glamis Castle this year, and I'm going to make that my swan song.

I know I'm not the only small producer in the area who's been broken by this bureaucracy, and it's just another example of how free enterprise and initiative is stifled in the UK today. I'm pretty p*ssed off, I have to say.
Just Hold off for a wee while mate things are changing. Call Pete Moore Nature Scot and ask him w3hen the new3 stuff for you will be sorted or when you can now use the small amount exemption,s
 
Just Hold off for a wee while mate things are changing. Call Pete Moore Nature Scot and ask him w3hen the new3 stuff for you will be sorted or when you can now use the small amount exemption,s
Pete is a top bloke.

My understanding is Nature Scot and the Scottish BDS are working to get the situation in Scotland resolved (where in Scotland technically the requirement for a venison dealers licence trumps the 'hunters exemption')

I'm in a similar position, fed up with bureaucracy, the need to pay £200 for a dealers licence to sell 15 odd deer a year.
 
Pete is a top bloke.

My understanding is Nature Scot and the Scottish BDS are working to get the situation in Scotland resolved (where in Scotland technically the requirement for a venison dealers licence trumps the 'hunters exemption')

I'm in a similar position, fed up with bureaucracy, the need to pay £200 for a dealers licence to sell 15 odd deer a year.
I'm going to fire off a letter to Dave Doogan MP and see if he can offer any support and further advice. Appreciate the input from everybody! 👍
 
Can you not get away with it under the "retail to retail" exemption, if the person you're buying from is also registered as a food business?
(Not sure if that's in your version?)
No. They have us by the short hairs at the moment 😕
 
Thanks @Quixote for sharing and sorry you’re going through this.
I’m very much interested in this as I’m on the way to setting up as a small food business, not too far from you by the looks of it.
Reading the extract you highlighted from section 4.4, can you accept skinned carcasses or primals from another stalker? Would that satisfy the requirement for the shooter to be involved in the processing?
 
Thanks @Quixote for sharing and sorry you’re going through this.
I’m very much interested in this as I’m on the way to setting up as a small food business, not too far from you by the looks of it.
Reading the extract you highlighted from section 4.4, can you accept skinned carcasses or primals from another stalker? Would that satisfy the requirement for the shooter to be involved in the processing?
I'm afraid not, crazy as it sounds. Feel free to come and see the butchery if you're ever near Forfar? I'll pm you my number when I get a chance to regroup
 
With Stuart and I have had folk say our EHO talking bollox etc .... FSS and everybody in between involved and nope cannot buy in carcass
Can only sell deal in product we have had a had in killing
I tried the I'm being paid for the butchery service route not selling the meat. Didn't wash ...
Local young lad I now been out with him just so I was there and I can legally butcher it for him

Paul
 
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