Had enough of bureaucracy
- Thread starter User00056
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David Barker
Well-Known Member
Any one interested in venison go to the last 20 Dick tell you what you need it was interesting to see the total lack of info for the central belt.
Rafter
Well-Known Member
You always have to remember when dealing with Govt, regulatory bodies or Councils that they are driven by two imperatives.
1) do nothing that could expose them to personal or professional risk, and
2) always try and increase their part of the Empire.
Once you understand that, the rest of their behavior makes sense.
1) do nothing that could expose them to personal or professional risk, and
2) always try and increase their part of the Empire.
Once you understand that, the rest of their behavior makes sense.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
In respect of the point 1) above:
It isn’t yet (some years later) clear whether the food poisoning outbreaks - which are so potentially disastrous for all concerned - were as a result of
a) poor handling of an otherwise healthy carcase or carcasses,
b) the result of poor processing hygiene (HACCP/Env Health or cleaning of processing equipment interval failure) within the AGHE’s concerned, or
c) failure to identify and remove contaminated carcase/s from the process chain - be this by the Trained Hunter or AGHE inspection personnel along the journey to the end consumer.
The introduction of contamination into an otherwise healthy and useable carcase owing to poor handling practices, per my SQWV contamination-in-carcase observation made earlier still tends to highlight the very real fragility of the chain, and how very early on in the chain of events problems can arise that really ought not to, though this is only one aspect of the wider matter of poor practice potential pinch points. The number of control points along the way are several, but all of these combined did not manage to prevent the documented and publicised AGHEs (plural) originated food poisoning outbreaks occurring.
When I wrote to FLS and SQWV enquiring about what they intended to do to prevent any recurrence of the episode I myself experienced, no response from SQWV was forthcoming, which both disappointed and concerned me, not least because in the event of any food poisoning outbreak to have occurred as a result of this, their collective failure, it would have been my business which would have been upended; the ensuing consequences would have had a potentially disastrous impact on it, and needless to say my already shaken confidence in FLS carcasses supplied via the SQWV scheme evaporated as a result.
Rafter
Well-Known Member
I should have made it clearer that the most important of those things was to cover their ownselves.
In the real world, doing anything is better than doing nothing, as you can then make adjustments and improvements vs just waiting for stuff to happen and hoping it isn't bad.
In the bureaucratic world, doing nothing is better than taking a risk, so they do tend to that direction.
In the real world, doing anything is better than doing nothing, as you can then make adjustments and improvements vs just waiting for stuff to happen and hoping it isn't bad.
In the bureaucratic world, doing nothing is better than taking a risk, so they do tend to that direction.
When i was still ( wrongly) doing tue butchery service for local lass I did have one carcass come in with lad and when went to get it oit his motor it was rank....had been full of green ..pellets all loose in cavity along with grass leaves and sticks and yoy just k ow when a carcass has been exposed to the stomach you can smell it ...I said t9 lad sorry but I'm not taking that Into my larder and potential contaminate .
" iit be fine just a hose out"
Sorry that doesn't cut it when your dealing with publ8c health and food , it's got to be right !
Now if the end consumer can't keep refrigerated or cook to proper Internal te.ps etc that's different!
But CYA ... Cover Your Ar5e!!
" iit be fine just a hose out"
Sorry that doesn't cut it when your dealing with publ8c health and food , it's got to be right !
Now if the end consumer can't keep refrigerated or cook to proper Internal te.ps etc that's different!
But CYA ... Cover Your Ar5e!!
David Barker
Well-Known Member
I was told that after an investigation it was clear that the meat used in the process was from some one or something in side Highland games unit. Only a small amount was found to be contaminated out of a large batch. This was not down to deer managers presenting badly prepared carcases. I know there was a lot of work done at highland game and right back to the FLS larders to avoid this time of contamination again. I did send pictures to (VSS ) that while old would have been taken from FLS larders at the time of the problem.
David Barker
Well-Known Member
End user should cook properly and clean there w3ork surfaces etc etc. The ecoli in Highland Game effect more than one end user w3ho cant cook. You would also be surprised at how many people think they can have a medium rare burger lol.
Ways and means
I'm against rare burger but....
Seen the risks assessment from a place that did them and meat for burger was minced to order to minimise time the mince was sat exposed with the greater surface area and time / potential for it to be contaminated till cooked albeit partially
In france I had steak tartare and was same according to chef
I use the raw chicken analogy ...80% on shelfs has campylobacter ...and that sh1t has killed 180 people and puts fokk in ICU with food poisoning every year
Yet we cook and buy more chicken than any other meat but folk know it should be 74c or higher
I know a woman who goes to a bbq she carrys a thermopen thermeter in her bag ...overkill ?..... she was 12 days in ICU with food poisoning and told me once you had a proper case of it. Your attitude to food safety changes ...dramatically.
Paul
I'm against rare burger but....
Seen the risks assessment from a place that did them and meat for burger was minced to order to minimise time the mince was sat exposed with the greater surface area and time / potential for it to be contaminated till cooked albeit partially
In france I had steak tartare and was same according to chef
I use the raw chicken analogy ...80% on shelfs has campylobacter ...and that sh1t has killed 180 people and puts fokk in ICU with food poisoning every year
Yet we cook and buy more chicken than any other meat but folk know it should be 74c or higher
I know a woman who goes to a bbq she carrys a thermopen thermeter in her bag ...overkill ?..... she was 12 days in ICU with food poisoning and told me once you had a proper case of it. Your attitude to food safety changes ...dramatically.
Paul
Absolutely true! I once had a butchers steaks that made me very poorly for a solid week. I take absolutely zero chances now, and if that means discarding marginal product then that's my own loss. I point blank refuse to put anything out for public consumption that I'm not absolutely confident is as safe as I can possibly make it.
My mum used to make beef tartare which she learnt from her mum.
She would get beef from the butchers and hand mince herself (or me if I was about) to make the meal.
Would she eat a rare burger? Not a chance even though she made them herself.
I was supposed to have been at Glamis today for the Highland Games, but decided that I just couldn't be bothered in the end. I let them know a few days ago, and also posted an update on my Facebook page that was largely met with complete indifference from my 300 or so 'followers'.
As an aside, I made sausages today. For us. Not for sale, not to give to friends, just for us. And it reminded me that my pleasure was why I built my butchery in the first place.
And that's how it's going to stay.
As an aside, I made sausages today. For us. Not for sale, not to give to friends, just for us. And it reminded me that my pleasure was why I built my butchery in the first place.
And that's how it's going to stay.
co’den
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your generous time yesterday Stu, the setup you have is cracking. It’s a real shame you’ve chapped it but I can see how the ‘system’ gets in the way. Definitely given me food for thought.
My pleasure entirely. I think your business model would work better than mine, given your circumstances. Very best of luck with it!Thanks for your generous time yesterday Stu, the setup you have is cracking. It’s a real shame you’ve chapped it but I can see how the ‘system’ gets in the way. Definitely given me food for thought.
Just over the hill from you in Deeside, and looking to eventually make some venison charcuterie as a side business - just something fun for myself and sell a bit to local places. Salami, 'Nduja have all worked well and going through the processes of getting my HACCP plan in order, products tested, processes validated etc. With the permissions I have, I should be able to source all the venison myself, which I assume would get me around the main hurdles in this thread?
I would say so. They completely hamstrung me, but with a different business model (and if you have the time to obtain the carcasses yourself) then a lot of them can probably be overcome. I still think it's absolutely stupid that we can't source carcasses from trained hunters though. Absolute mockery
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