Help Please! Advice needed from any optical experts!

[Dodder]

Gents,

I’m really hoping someone out there can help me with this please…. I recently sent a £1700 scope back to a very well known manufacturer (with a superb reputation for customer service) to be looked at because of a problem with excessive lateral play in the eyepiece. The scope itself is basically as-new and less than a year old and not been damaged in any way.

I noticed that there was a lot of lateral play in the eyepiece and am convinced this must be adversely affecting accuracy so sent it back with a note to say the following:

When any lateral pressure (even relatively slight pressure) is put on the eyepiece, it can be seen and felt to move significantly from side to side. If you are looking through the scope then the crosshairs can be seen to move quite considerably across the target as the eyepiece is moved.

I today received an e-mail back to say the Factory can find no fault and with the following information from the factory:

Info for the customer
Reticle does not move!!!! It’s absolutely stable.
It’s technical and mechanical not possible if the customer press the dioptre that the reticle moves.
It’s an optical illusion!!!

I can’t tell you how disappointed I am that the factory considers there to be ‘no fault’, when there is clearly quite considerable excessive play in the threads of the eyepiece. I would be unhappy, but accepting, if this were a cheap £30 Chinese scope, but the fact that is a £1700, high quality precision instrument with a world famous reputation leaves me lost for words that this can possibly be deemed acceptable?
It may well be that when you move the eyepiece the actual reticle doesn’t in fact move within the main body of the tube, but the fact is it actually appears to move. Consequently, when targeting anything, depending on where the eyepiece is, surely this will result in a different point of impact?
If there are any ‘experts’ out there I would really value your opinion as to whether what the factory says is actually true and what my next course of action might be. I am intending on perhaps taking the scope into a dealer who has other examples of the same model to compare and also ask the dealer whether they think this play is acceptable – what do you think??

 

[stag1933]

Telescopic sights have `eye relief` sometimes 3 inches or so therefore I fail to see how you get a lateral movement of the eyepiece if you are not touching it.

HWH.

 

[palmer_mike]

Sounds a bit rough, think your idea of getting a second opinion is probably a good idea. Out of interest, what scope is it?

 

[jcampbellsmith]

I don't know is the short answer. I think the first step is to get the scope back and demonstrate the issue to someone else. Then hand them the scope and see if they can duplicate the issue. We can speculate until the cows come home on the Internet, but that won't prove anything. Regards JCS

 

[User00047]

I'm no optical expert but I think that if you look through any scope and move your head side to side the reticle will appear to move about as well. Have a look through some other scopes and see if it is the same thing.

 

[Zeissman]

I have heard of this before in a much lower end scope (but not quite a Chinese cheapy). As JCS says, get someone else to check with the gun/scope body clamped in position. If the sight picture is moving in comparison to the reticle and your eye is in the same position, you cannot duplicate accuracy using that scope and you are well within your rights to throw your toys out of the pram. However, if the sight picture is moving with the reticle then a) I think that I can guess what scope you have and b) it shouldn't affect accuracy. We all pay good money for consistency and confidence in our kit so this is worth exploring fully and reporting back!

 

[MONGOOSE]

A difficult one this really be good if you could get a second opinion, but I suspect that if the experts say there is no problem then there isn't maybe that's the way it's designed, maybe if you tell us the make and model and somebody here has the same scope they may be able to do a comparison for you don't no what else to suggest tbh......

 

[Dodder]

Thanks guys for your opinions - Zeissman I am pretty sure that when I tried it before (bear in mind it is still away at the moment) the sight picture is moving in comparison with the reticle so I believe as you do that it must be impossible to duplicate accuracy.....

The scope is a Swaro Z6 5-30x50BT - I am intending taking it to one or more dealers who have the same scope in stock to do a side-by-side comparison and also to maybe get the opinion of those dealers. Regardless of whether it is affecting accuracy (and I am still convinced it must be) I still think that the play in the threads of the focus ring of the eyepiece is pretty shocking for an expensive scope - you can feel it rocking from side to side or up and down. I have a couple of MTC's which are rock solid in that department. As you can imagine I am not a very happy chappie.....

 

[MONGOOSE]

Thanks guys for your opinions - Zeissman I am pretty sure that when I tried it before (bear in mind it is still away at the moment) the sight picture is moving in comparison with the reticle so I believe as you do that it must be impossible to duplicate accuracy.....

The scope is a Swaro Z6 5-30x50BT - I am intending taking it to one or more dealers who have the same scope in stock to do a side-by-side comparison and also to maybe get the opinion of those dealers. Regardless of whether it is affecting accuracy (and I am still convinced it must be) I still think that the play in the threads of the focus ring of the eyepiece is pretty shocking for an expensive scope - you can feel it rocking from side to side or up and down. I have a couple of MTC's which are rock solid in that department. As you can imagine I am not a very happy chappie.....

i knew it was going to be a Z6 for some reason I had the 4-16x50 BT and whils its a good scope and done all I could ask of it I changed both of mine for a S&B 8x56 30mm much better for stalking purposes nothing to fiddle with or fannying around before taking the shot and weight saving....

I still have a Swaro scope for range use and binoculars and still rate them highly but as with all products your going to get a bad one at some point, but must say I'm suprised that the service centre would send a scope back if it had a problem I've sent numerous scopes and binos back to them over probably a 15 year period and never once had any issues with them I hope when it comes back they have actually done something to it and all is well but wait and see what it's like when you receive it back then go from there good luck......

 

[Dodder]

i knew it was going to be a Z6 for some reason I had the 4-16x50 BT and whils its a good scope and done all I could ask of it I changed both of mine for a S&B 8x56 30mm much better for stalking purposes nothing to fiddle with or fannying around before taking the shot and weight saving....

I still have a Swaro scope for range use and binoculars and still rate them highly but as with all products your going to get a bad one at some point, but must say I'm suprised that the service centre would send a scope back if it had a problem I've sent numerous scopes and binos back to them over probably a 15 year period and never once had any issues with them I hope when it comes back they have actually done something to it and all is well but wait and see what it's like when you receive it back then go from there good luck......

They are telling me an I quote 'they have done all the tests and found no fault'!! I still cant beleive that they think it is acceptable to have an eyepiece focussing thread on a £1700 scope that is that sloppy it feels like a 50p chinese toy - unbelievable....

They are telling me its an optic illusion - if the rifle is rock steady and when you touch the eyepiece the crosshairs appear to move in relation to the target then how on earth is that an optical illusion?

I would really like to talk to someone who knows about optics, so if any of you have any contact details of someone, preferably from within the Industry who might be able to give me some advise please, I'd really like to hear from you.

 

[buckup]

Hi Dodder,
I'm a bit puzzled by this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I have various scopes on my rifles, (Leupold, Simmons, and even a cheap Hawke) and the eyepiece is generally set up on day one and never touched again. Once the reticule is clearly defined then there is no need to re-adjust unless your eyesight changes dramatically. Once I'm happy there is a locking ring which I wind out until it locks up against the eyepiece to prevent accidental movement. Once this is tight I can't see how your eyepiece would wobble about even if touched.

I look forward to hearing any other comments.

Mark

 

[Acm]

I have no experience really with swaro scopes ( but did shoot my first ever stalked deer through one )! But I know a big game hunting outfitter who will now ONLY fly rifles with Schmidt , leupold or high end zeiss ( not duralyt) plus a few over high end brands fitted . In 30 years in the trade he's had to re zero 1 Schmidt no leupold and no zeiss upon landing . But he' almost always had to re zero the swaro and theair pressure has broken 3 internally .

Optically superb but mechanically not quite . There's a reason almost all sniper units in the western world use Schmidt pm11's !

 

[Dodder]

Hi Dodder,
I'm a bit puzzled by this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I have various scopes on my rifles, (Leupold, Simmons, and even a cheap Hawke) and the eyepiece is generally set up on day one and never touched again. Once the reticule is clearly defined then there is no need to re-adjust unless your eyesight changes dramatically. Once I'm happy there is a locking ring which I wind out until it locks up against the eyepiece to prevent accidental movement. Once this is tight I can't see how your eyepiece would wobble about even if touched.

I look forward to hearing any other comments.

Mark

I agree, once set there should be no need to adjust. But the fact is that the thread on the eyepiece focus is so sloppy that the slightest pressure on the side of the eyepiece in any direction moves it, which in turn moves the crosshairs in relation to the target, so I am at a loss to see how they can say this is an optical illusion! There is no locking ring on the eyepiece of a Swaro - if there was I would agree it wouldn't be an issue as far as accuracy was concerned, but I still dont believe its right that there should be that much play on any part of a £1700 scope!!

Everybody says how fantastic their customer service is - so far unfortunately in my experience this is far from the case. Any suggestions as to any independent experts I can perhaps turn to for advice please?

 

[bewsher500]

forget the "optical illusion" part for the moment
focus (if you will exuse the pun) on the mechanical issue. Your scope has a loose eyepiece.

Surely they noticed this part?

 

[bobjs]

I have a buddy in Salisbury and he has just sent back his z6 5/30x50, fault was issues with the elevation adjuster, it ran out of adjust ment on elevatoin at 100 yrads.

this does not sound good with yet another z6 having problems. ??

bob.