Holts Sealed Bid overpriced ???

[HonestJohn]

So the solution is not to bid. If they get no bids they will need to reduce the starting bid

What I mean is - they sort of tart things up, nice picture cropping, glossy mag etc. they put only the best pics online and purposefully omit any that show defects or damage. I’ve bought things from them even with condition reports that have been rubbish. One Mauser the bolt face lip was chipped off, couldn’t hold a cartridge and no repair possible - write off. Another, also with condition report, 30-06 Brno Mauser, slam fired. Couldn’t be fixed without new trigger assembly at £185.
Had a couple where metal was described as ‘patina’, but was cratered and pitted.

Personally, I don’t think there are any deals to be done anymore unless it’s the main auctions for rifles that cost £40k to build and are now sold off at £3-£5k because the laird died

There’s a rifle in it now that’s got AI gen images and show it with complete bolt and extractor claw in place, the REAL rifle actually for sale has NO extractor claw and metal polish is not as nice

 

[Rubicon]

Condition Reports are honest.

I was considering bidding on a true left handed 16 bore in the sealed bid in December 2025. Requested a condition report - copied below. Gun is shootable, but it would need quite a bit of work gor it to nice - vice marks on action etc. A left handed action is nice for a lefty. I suppose £1500 to £2000 all in if this was in nice good condition would be the correct sort of money.

This sort of gun is either a £300 and shoot the hell out of it, or potentially a basis for a rebuild. I considered a cheeky bid. It was Unsold in the last auction.

S1225 December 2025 Sealed Bid, 11/12/2025, Venue: Norfolk

Lot No. 6533

H.W. BARFORD & CO. LEFT-HANDED 16-BORE BOXLOCK EJECTOR, serial no. 73775, circa 1945, 28in. nitro reproved barrels, rib engraved 'H.W. BARFORD & CO. COVENTRY.', 2 1/2in. chambers, bored approx. imp. cyl. and 1/2 choke, treble-grip action, left-hand toplever, automatic safety, border and acanthus scroll engraving, 14 3/4in. stock, weight 6lb. 1oz.
Estimate: £300-500

CONDITION:
.651+ .663+ 24 21

barrels externally with some fading to reblue (and inherent loss of definition to rib inscription), some light rust spotting and losses to finish at muzzles and where fore-end meets, partially repaired dent to right barrel, internally with some light marking and minor pits, fairly dull to ring, slight movement on action and slightly off face. Action with some scars and staining to face, some fairly heavy vice marks from action bar being squeezed to tighten, some loss of crispness to engraving, slight overbite mark to floorplate, safety and ejectors operate ok with snapcaps. Woodwork with average light surface knocks and bruises. stock possible replacement.

View attachment 470521View attachment 470522View attachment 470522

Thanks Heym unfortunately they don't offer condition reports for sealed bid big warning comes up when you click the auction saying

"We cannot fulfil any requests for photography or condition reports for any item in the sealed bid sale.​

Please read and digest the following before accessing the HOLTS online catalogue.
By making a bid you acknowledge that you accept our terms and conditions which can be accessed from the Buying page under 'Terms & Conditions'. "

Which is a shame but do understand the time from a business point of you as the amount of time wasted on people wanting reports on a £50 firearm. Personally I would be happy to pay few quid to get one just so i could make an informed bid on not to bid.

As far as I know, that wouldn't work either.

The sealed bid (and their main auction from what I've seen) runs on they start at the low end of their estimate, and if it doesn't have any interest there, then it just doesn't sell...

Thought they'd at least entertain offers under, as some of their "values" seem high (and others seem wildly under...). But even for the handful of lots I tuned in to the main sale for, that just isn't done?

Cheers Chriswjx interesting hearing from the otherside. I guess as they not paying for stock anything that doesn't get sold just keep getting rolled into the next auction.
I know they do after sealed bid buy it now on some guns. Infact i have brought one as i had one a couple in o the sealed bid so free shipping (as i had already paid for shipping and they could just pop in the box think it is fixed up to four)

I am a huge fan of my local firearm dealers and when visiting a new city i always try a pop into a few new ones as they do a truly great job of supporting our hobby.

I just feel that holts could put a few more details in with the sealed bid so you could make more of an informed choice.
Unfortunately they are many of us that cant easily pop in on the viewing days 10 hour round trip for me.

If this comes of as me bashing holts it is not just putting a few thoughts down to discuss with some quality people i stumbled accross on the internet.

 

[Rutland lad]

I still look at the catalogue. I can’t help myself. And there are still a few bargains to be had. Sometimes cheap and nasty scopes are sold with Blaser or Mauser QD mounts still attached …….. just saying.
If you are disciplined and know exactly what you are looking for and what it would cost you in the shop, then crack on. If not, leave and walk away.

 

[Heym SR20]

Thanks Heym unfortunately they don't offer condition reports for sealed bid big warning comes up when you click the auction saying

"We cannot fulfil any requests for photography or condition reports for any item in the sealed bid sale.​

Please read and digest the following before accessing the HOLTS online catalogue.
By making a bid you acknowledge that you accept our terms and conditions which can be accessed from the Buying page under 'Terms & Conditions'. "

Which is a shame but do understand the time from a business point of you as the amount of time wasted on people wanting reports on a £50 firearm. Personally I would be happy to pay few quid to get one just so i could make an informed bid on not to bid.




Cheers Chriswjx interesting hearing from the otherside. I guess as they not paying for stock anything that doesn't get sold just keep getting rolled into the next auction.
I know they do after sealed bid buy it now on some guns. Infact i have brought one as i had one a couple in o the sealed bid so free shipping (as i had already paid for shipping and they could just pop in the box think it is fixed up to four)

I am a huge fan of my local firearm dealers and when visiting a new city i always try a pop into a few new ones as they do a truly great job of supporting our hobby.

I just feel that holts could put a few more details in with the sealed bid so you could make more of an informed choice.
Unfortunately they are many of us that cant easily pop in on the viewing days 10 hour round trip for me.

If this comes of as me bashing holts it is not just putting a few thoughts down to discuss with some quality people i stumbled accross on the internet.

The condition report I posted above was for an item in their last sealed bid auction. You can always ask.

Quite rightly their focus will be on the higher value items.

They have just released the catalogue for the latest sealed bid. There is an enquiry button on each bid where you can ask questions.

If you asking questions- be very specific. Ie not “is it in good condition”.

Instead: barrel condition - dimensions and any pitting

Do barrels ring

Are barrels loose on frame.

Do Ejectors work with snap caps etc.

 

[Rubicon]

What I mean is - they sort of tart things up, nice picture cropping, glossy mag etc. they put only the best pics online and purposefully omit any that show defects or damage. I’ve bought things from them even with condition reports that have been rubbish. One Mauser the bolt face lip was chipped off, couldn’t hold a cartridge and no repair possible - write off. Another, also with condition report, 30-06 Brno Mauser, slam fired. Couldn’t be fixed without new trigger assembly at £185.
Had a couple where metal was described as ‘patina’, but was cratered and pitted.

Personally, I don’t think there are any deals to be done anymore unless it’s the main auctions for rifles that cost £40k to build and are now sold off at £3-£5k because the laird died

There’s a rifle in it now that’s got AI gen images and show it with complete bolt and extractor claw in place, the REAL rifle actually for sale has NO extractor claw and metal polish is not as nice

I think you are bang on John. Cant believe you had so many things that didn't work but was implied they did think that is very unfair. Seems like as you said high end rifles and shotguns will be a comparative bargain but run of mill real world stuff wont be and with limited or wrong info. Cant believe they missed the mauser chip.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Bear in mind that if the gun fits you well and is just what you are looking for you might not find another like it.

This ^
I procrastinated about a mint condition Mauser 66S Stutzen for over 12-months as everyone was telling me it was overpriced. I finally bit the bullet and have never regretted it. When I picked it up the owner confirmed he could have sold it to a number of overseas customers were it not for the paperwork since Brexit and had two enthusiastic UK commitments to buy that week!

Grab it while you can.

K

 

[Apthorpe]

Yes but the point is, in a live auction the auctioneer will try to start the lot at their low estimate & if it doesn’t he will reduce the price till he gets a bid & then it starts to go. If the final bid doesn't exceed the reserve the seller has placed then the item is only ‘provisional’ or remains unsold.

With Holts sealed bid you cannot place a bid that is below the low estimate, end of, they won’t accept it.

So what? If it's overpriced, it won't sell and they'll have to adjust their low estimate next time.
If you don't like the prices, then the reslity is that, on the whole, you're undervaluing things.

 

[Heym SR20]

But if you are serious about buying something at auction, or for that matter any gun even in a retailer, go and look at it in the flesh. Handle it test it with snap caps etc. etc. look at several and then place a bid - either as a sealed bid, a commissions bid, or in person at the auction.

Make it an adventure, even spend a night in the local pub. Have a look at many many guns.

Handling is very very subjective. I once looked at, what looked in the pictures, a very nice Side lock. I think it was an Army and Navy. Long stock, 30” barrels, lovely wood etc.

But for me, it handled like a fence post - heavy barrels, weight out forwards. Handled like a competition Sporting Clays over and under. It would be a very good side by side for a clay shooter moving into a side by side. This is the sort of thing that no amount of condition reports etc will cover.

I like a fast handling, instinctive gun, so passed.

 

[Rubicon]

But if you are serious about buying something at auction, or for that matter any gun even in a retailer, go and look at it in the flesh. Handle it test it with snap caps etc. etc. look at several and then place a bid - either as a sealed bid, a commissions bid, or in person at the auction.

Make it an adventure, even spend a night in the local pub. Have a look at many many guns.

Handling is very very subjective. I once looked at, what looked in the pictures, a very nice Side lock. I think it was an Army and Navy. Long stock, 30” barrels, lovely wood etc.

But for me, it handled like a fence post - heavy barrels, weight out forwards. Handled like a competition Sporting Clays over and under. It would be a very good side by side for a clay shooter moving into a side by side. This is the sort of thing that no amount of condition reports etc will cover.

I like a fast handling, instinctive gun, so passed.

I would like to just don't have the time unfortunately. I have asked them some question so will see what they come back with. I brought a couple of eastern block shottys from them in the past and they are still going strong to this day. Do love an eastern block shotty.

 

[HandB]

I have bought three firearms from Holt's sealed bid for a grand total of £935, namely two BSA Hunter rifles in .222 and 7x57 respectively plus an S1 FN A5 shotgun. The latter did need a lot of work by me to get it functioning properly but it only cost £60 and it was informative to work on. They all shoot accurately and were well worth the cash imho, but like others have said, only you can decide what is good value.

 

[NullMac]

That’s why I sell through them.

For big stuff online you just get time wasters or midgie rakers, but Holts sale prices are incredible particularly when you add on commissions and vat. Clearly buyers don’t otherwise they would never pay prices that are often in excess of retail.

I have never managed to buy anything yet

 

[GBR66]

As far as I know, that wouldn't work either.

The sealed bid (and their main auction from what I've seen) runs on they start at the low end of their estimate, and if it doesn't have any interest there, then it just doesn't sell...

Thought they'd at least entertain offers under, as some of their "values" seem high (and others seem wildly under...). But even for the handful of lots I tuned in to the main sale for, that just isn't done?

Quite usual in auctions, online in particular, to have an option to place bid on unsold lots which I suppose lets non-sellers do a bit of a reality check and revisit, and a fair few thoroughbreds get sold "outside the ring" at Tatts and Goffs after they fail to sell, and get recorded in the auction records.

 

[Pedro]

There's two types of buyers. Private buyers who see something they've always wanted and have a punt. Then there's those who want a bargain, whether that be in the trade or private.

Honestly, if you see your heart's desire in the auction, it's up to you how much you want to bid to secure it, and the pleasure of owning it is secondary to have paid over the odds (within reason, there'll always be another along sometime). But if you are after bargains, then stick rigidly to what you'll bid and expect to fail more often than you don't.

 

[Mr. Gain]

IMO, auctions are for things you won't find in any shop. This makes their value whatever those who are interested are prepared to pay. The things you are after can be like proverbial buses, too: a cluster popping up at auction can make you think you can afford to bide your time, and then you spend years waiting for another chance... Or you sieze the day, pay what you must, and then watch as several better examples make their appearance! My own experience suggests that if you see something you want, you must ask yourself what is the absolute most you could live with having spent on it, and then make that your limit. Half-hearted bids almost never win. There will always be someone else who wanted it more (so feel happy for them when you "lose")
As for the premiums, it is hard not to resent them, but the work involved in attracting sellers, valuing and photographing lots, running the sale, and tying up the many loose ends afterwards doesn't get done by magic or without specialized expertise.
Finally, the more I handle old guns, and the more I compare them to box-fresh modern guns, the better the value proposition of the former becomes. £2000 (fees paid) will buy you something unique and remarkable at auction, and something entirely mundane in a shop.

 

[udderlyoffroad]

Holts do at least have a calculator on their website, albeit it does not include their somewhat steep packaging charges to send to your local RFD.

Honestly unless you’re local or have the time to drive* to Norforkistan, the sealed bid are unlikely to yield you any bargains. If you want bargains, it’s people who are giving up their licence due to age or can’t-be-bothered-to-renew-ness. Or, the completists who have to have one of each type of a given farm, who decide to move on their duplicates.

All this is a long way of saying that although I’ve had some reasonable deals from the sealed bid, I can’t help but feel a little bit more transparency on their part, in terms of pictures, fees and descriptions for the lower end guns would leave less of a bitter taste in the mouth. The auctionese language really needs to go away too. Just have a table in the description showing year, s/n, barrel length etc

*thus eliminating the RFD fees at both ends + aforementioned packing fee

 

[Heym SR20]

I don’t get this criticism of the auctions being over priced. The whole point of an auction is to get the best price for the seller.

They achieve this by promoting the auction widely and getting as many potential buyers looking in. These days of the internet the audience is global, especially the likes of Holts who make it easy as possible for overseas buyers and sellers with shipping etc.

So let’s take side by side shotguns of British make as the example. In the UK these are very much out of fashion and are being given up in favour of modern steel proofed over and unders. A lot are being taken in by gunsmiths for minimal cost as a “part exchange” and this is what is the cornerstone of the sealed bids.

These guns are snapped up by American dealers and hunters as they are the fashion in the US at the moment. A pretty basic but tidy British Boxlock ejector or non- ejector is making $2 to 3,000 over there. So dealers will buying the high grade sidelocks or Scottish round action for particular clients and then adding in a load of boxlocks to make up consignments. Cost of shipping one gun versus a pallet of 20 is not that different in terms of paperwork. Those buyers will happily spend a few hundred, when they know they will sell for a few thousand.

This does drive up the price somewhat. Is this a bad thing?

In any case what is the value - it is what a willing buyer is prepared to pay a willing seller. Seller’s can usually set a base price below which they are not prepared to sell. Sometimes this may be too high and object doesn’t sell.

But sometimes you get multiple willing buyers all prepared to pay a high price for an object, and all bar one will ultimately get to point where they are not prepared to pay more.

That is the whole point of an auction.

If you want bargains go to local auctions or go and visit good gunshops and let them know what you are looking for and make an offer. Sometimes they will agree sometimes they won’t.