How long before someone produces a .240 / 6.10mm rifle to avoid the lead ban?

[artschool]

Those who are trying so hard to skip having to use copper / other non toxic ammo , need to go out and shoot a decent amount of deer with some of the best brands of copper . Sure its different but decent copper really does work very well on everything from big Rutting stags down to muntjac and a goodly amount of rabbits. Geese and Duck kill just fine also but the steel shot is a tooth risk , so it certainly needs careful prep
I would like copper to be cheaper , though it would be nice if it costs the same as lead - I feel a lot better my friends and family are not ingesting poison

I have been using copper only since 2017. I personally don't get what the fuss is about.

but I of course support peoples right to make a fuss

 

[Smellydog]

So, is it true that any calibre rifle that has modified bullets of sub calibre can shoot lead relative to the legal parameters?

 

[cjm1066]

I have one hundred Remington Accelerator .30/06 factory loaded. But FWIW accuracy is maybe 3" to 4" at 100 yards.

Wow, in my Interarms MK X Whitworth I could keep them on a piece of A4 paper at 100 yards.

 

[enfieldspares]

Especially when you read here and the various Facebook groups...

With people's reluctance to try new things, I'm surprised the majority of deer aren't still shot with a muzzle loader...

Them new fangled hammerless guns? Like a spaniel with no ears! Which is what was once said about hammerless sidelock guns in fact. And why there were those "crystal window" sidelocks and other such guns with false hammers.

Lot Detail - (A) W. C. SCOTT HAMMERLESS 12 GAUGE SIDE BY SIDE SHOTGUN.

Bonhams : A rare 12-bore semi-hammerless sidelock non-ejector gun by Chamberlain, no. 7394 With its proof exemption certificate

The barrel and lower tang engraved '2', the treble-grip action body incorporating D. Bentley's patent no. 17,037 of 1884, concealed hammers (left hammer an old replacement), foliate-scroll engraving, the well-figured stock (cracks to both sides of the lower tang) with pistol-grip and horn...

www.bonhams.com

 

[Dunwaters]

The Americans already anticipated it. Sort of. Some even have killed tiger with it. I've even, once upon a time, seen a Rigby double rifle chambered for it. The European ammunition makers just call it 5.6mmx52R. If you want a rimless .228" buy a 5.6mm Vom Hofe.

.22 Savage Hi-Power - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

5.6 X 61 VOM HOFE SUPER EXPRESS | Cartridge Collector

www.cartridgecollector.net

I got to play with both calibers many moons ago. The .22 Hi power was a Savage 99 lever action belonging to an elderly gentleman who had inherited it from his father. Legend had it that his dad had used in South Africa to slay an Eland and sundry other plains game. It worked very well on deer too.
The Vom Hoffe was something else, it was a Krico rifle and the ammunition was both eye wateringly expensive and almost impossible to find. The owner never practised with it and never checked zero either. The thunderous report was usually followed by an even more thunderous outburst of bad language. When he did connect, half the carcass was destroyed. Emerging close to 3,700fps or so, ( from memory, velocity could have been higher ) the bullet tended to vaporise and spread lead shards and blood clots far and wide. It also rendered teeth unnecessary by turning the impact site into soup.
I haven’t seen either caliber for decades, or the 5.6x57 either. Theres nothing easier to hit with out to 200M or so than a .22 centre fire, I half wish I still had one.

 

[enfieldspares]

I got to play with both calibers many moons ago. The .22 Hi power was a Savage 99 lever action belonging to an elderly gentleman who had inherited it from his father. Legend had it that his dad had used in South Africa to slay an Eland and sundry other plains game. It worked very well on deer too.
The Vom Hoffe was something else, it was a Krico rifle and the ammunition was both eye wateringly expensive and almost impossible to find. The owner never practised with it and never checked zero either. The thunderous report was usually followed by an even more thunderous outburst of bad language. When he did connect, half the carcass was destroyed. Emerging close to 3,700fps or so, ( from memory, velocity could have been higher ) the bullet tended to vaporise and spread lead shards and blood clots far and wide. It also rendered teeth unnecessary by turning the impact site into soup.
I haven’t seen either caliber for decades, or the 5.6x57 either. Theres nothing easier to hit with out to 200M or so than a .22 centre fire, I half wish I still had one.

Thank you. Everyday is a learning day at SD. Thank you for sharing that about the Vom Hofe.

 

[timbrayford]

I got to play with both calibers many moons ago. The .22 Hi power was a Savage 99 lever action belonging to an elderly gentleman who had inherited it from his father. Legend had it that his dad had used in South Africa to slay an Eland and sundry other plains game. It worked very well on deer too.
The Vom Hoffe was something else, it was a Krico rifle and the ammunition was both eye wateringly expensive and almost impossible to find. The owner never practised with it and never checked zero either. The thunderous report was usually followed by an even more thunderous outburst of bad language. When he did connect, half the carcass was destroyed. Emerging close to 3,700fps or so, ( from memory, velocity could have been higher ) the bullet tended to vaporise and spread lead shards and blood clots far and wide. It also rendered teeth unnecessary by turning the impact site into soup.
I haven’t seen either caliber for decades, or the 5.6x57 either. Theres nothing easier to hit with out to 200M or so than a .22 centre fire, I half wish I still had one.

OK out in the field but our approved club range has a 3200fps restriction

 

[Malxwal]

Given the number of new cartridges that fail, developing one in the UK for the UK market is bound to fail.

Could it be that our glorious Party issue just one cartridge to the proletariat....

 

[Deermanagement]

From SAAMI specs.
Bore diameter = 0.237” (6.02mm)
Bullet diameter = 0.243 - 0.003 (6.17 - 0.08) Having measured a number of .243/6mm bullets I have yet to find one greater than 6.15 in diameter.

The recommendation, IIRC, talked about both bore and bullet diameter being 6.17mm or greater, in which case crack on with .243. Let’s see how it is eventually worded as it is clear that the report authors don’t know their a from their elbow.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-2025-Centerfire-Rifle-Approved-2-10-2025.pdf

As pointed out, .243 bullets are not .243
The wording would have to change to make 243 lead illegal

 

[enfieldspares]

As pointed out, .243 bullets are not .243
The wording would have to change to make 243 lead illegal

Years ago I would have bet money on anything ".240" being exempted. That is becasue there would have been sufficient in the then hereditary House of Lords and enough Conservative MPs representing Scottish constituencies that the .240 Holland & Holland would have dragged the .243 Winchester on its coat tails onto a list of bullet sizes permitted to be lead. Nowadays? I do no think there will be an exemption as the minimum bullet weight change to Scotland allows for a eighty grain .243" or 6mm bullet which is available as non-toxic.

 

[Smellydog]

Years ago I would have bet money on anything ".240" being exempted. That is becasue there would have been sufficient in the then hereditary House of Lords and enough Conservative MPs representing Scottish constituencies that the .240 Holland & Holland would have dragged the .243 Winchester on its coat tails onto a list of bullet sizes permitted to be lead. Nowadays? I do no think there will be an exemption as the minimum bullet weight change to Scotland allows for a eighty grain .243" or 6mm bullet which is available as non-toxic.

That came in due to other demands before this Great Persecution.

 

[C h r i s]

You think any manufacturer will be that concerned about the U.K.’s ****y little market??

I wouldn’t think so!

I totally agree, but was thinking more along the lines of one of our UK based barrel manufacturers such as Pendragon or Pheonix.

It seems that over in the US people have been churning out all sorts of bizarre wildcat calibres such as the .19 with relative ease for years, I guess it goes to show the poor state of our manufacturing capabilities or the general "no can do" / cant be arsed attitude we have here.

 

[Twodogs]

Significantly more expensive to ‘experiment’ ie cost of barrels than in the states not to mention the licensing issues we would have to navigate.
Really does not encourage experimentation.

 

[gixer1]

I totally agree, but was thinking more along the lines of one of our UK based barrel manufacturers such as Pendragon or Pheonix.

It seems that over in the US people have been churning out all sorts of bizarre wildcat calibres such as the .19 with relative ease for years, I guess it goes to show the poor state of our manufacturing capabilities or the general "no can do" / cant be arsed attitude we have here.

Yeah, putting a barrel on in the states is something you can do in your garage…in an afternoon if you have the know how….doing it in the U.K. takes weeks or months, paperwork to the police, proofing etc. it’s just not an efficient system for it here.

A real shame, and we absolutely have the technical expertise here.

 

[cjm1066]

Replacing a barrel with the same calibre requires no paperwork if you buy an unchambered barrel. You can DIY it, and no need for proof testing unless you want to sell the rifle. Get the Black and Decker out

 

[chriswjx]

Replacing a barrel with the same calibre requires no paperwork if you buy an unchambered barrel. You can DIY it, and no need for proof testing unless you want to sell the rifle. Get the Black and Decker out

If you're DIY'ing it, then don't you need to be registered as an RFD?

 

[Bowland blades]

This is all backward thinking . 1. copper is brilliant from .223 upwards into deer where the law allows the lighter weight and energy 2. when it comes to dangerous game copper and brass have both done more than share , even back in black powder days .

 

[C h r i s]

This is all backward thinking . 1. copper is brilliant from .223 upwards into deer where the law allows the lighter weight and energy 2. when it comes to dangerous game copper and brass have both done more than share , even back in black powder days .

Really?

 

[Bowland blades]

Really?

Totally ! way back when it was hand turned brass solids , today with copper look Buffalo bore up on U-Tube a company who specialise in big game copper from Barnes ( look them up on u-tube ). With respect reading old books there is nothing new about copper , brass etc way before we had cnc .

 

[C h r i s]

Hard to believe that people were using solid copper or brass bullets back in the black powder era.