Howa mini vs short action .223

[WSSX]

I'm probably being stupid here but I can't work it out - is the stock inletting for these actions different? I think the answer is yes and, if that's the case, it looks as though you are limited in stock options (at least in the standard packages they offer). Does that sound right? So no mini action in a GRS etc?

Also, looking at the other .223 barrelled actions on Highland Outdoors, it seems to suggest the 20" blued short action varmint is a 1:9 twist (like the mini action), while the 24" blued short action varmint is 1:8. Having seen older spec sheets, it looks like these twist rates may have got quicker some time recently(ish).

It has been a long week and I hate numbers at the best of times. I'm assuming there isn't much in 1:8 against 1:9 but is there any advantage to the mini beyond aesthetics?

 

[User00033]

Howa changed the .223 twist rate last year. There’s still a whole bunch of 1:9” twists in the market. If it has a 1:8” twist, it will be stamped on the barrel.

Mini action is inlet to it’s own size, shorter than the short action.

Minis actions for sale here are 1:8” twist, and they sell like hot cakes.

The 1” difference in twists makes quite a big difference what you can successfully shoot with the heavier .223 bullets.

 

[WSSX]

What do people shoot them in stock-wise then? Doesn't seem to be a huge amount of choice here. Are those "lightning II" stocks flimsy like the Hogues?

If there's no real advantage to the mini action I guess short gives you more options...

 

[Laurie]

Yes, they're different sizes. The Mini's bolt is nearly an inch shorter than the standard short-action 1500 and is smaller diameter, the receiver dimensions reflecting these differences. The 'Mini' also uses a different magazine, a specific polymer model for this action and so far no aftermarket alternatives AFAIK.

As you say, there are far fewer replacement stocks as yet. The MDT Oryx chassis is the best known and most widely available. From what I've seen on the 6.5 Grendel Forum which has a great deal of material on it about this rifle and its Cz527 competitor, there is a problem here centering on the magazine. Stocks like GRS replacements need very consistent magazine dimensions to fit in the stock neatly and properly positioned in order to function reliably and the Howa Mini mag is allegedly deficient here. So GRS, Bell & Carlsson or anybody else making a stock inlet it for a sample magazine, but then a percentage of customers complain that their rifles won't feed or the magazine won't lock in. B&C allegedly made a prototype or two but won't put it into production until the mag issue is sorted.

Again allegedly, LSI, Howa's western importer has been deluged with requests to pressure Howa to design and make a good quality metal magazine, in effect a downsized AI type, or at the very least make the polymer models more consistent. So far no progress on this last time I looked. As the Mini is selling very well, maybe somebody else will sort this if the Japanese won't - some people hope MDT will. (This doesn't seem to be an issue with Howa's plastic stocks or the MDT Oryx.)

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/

and look in the section on bolt rifles.

 

[WSSX]

Thanks @Laurie, I'll have a read

 

[Kalahari]

Mini action with a detachable metal mag, try a CZ 527.

David.

 

[WSSX]

Mini action with a detachable metal mag, try a CZ 527.

David.

Yeah I do like the look of them but it has been suggested to me that they're tiny - and I'm not! Think I need to get my hands on both really.

As to mags, I don't really care a great deal - I think I prefer floor plates...

 

[Kalahari]

Well, I am 6' 2" and an ex rugby second rower and I am fine with mine, my son who is younger fitter and a better shot, but still quite a big bloke seems to get on with his. Still I do think having a good look is a really good idea.

David.

 

[WSSX]

Well, I am 6' 2" and an ex rugby second rower and I am fine with mine, my son who is younger fitter and a better shot, but still quite a big bloke seems to get on with his. Still I do think having a good look is a really good idea.

David.

Oh we sound very similar - do you have monkey arms too?

Answer is always going to be picking them up I guess. Other suggestions welcome. All I want is a heavy barrel and quick(ish) twist (and not cripplingly expensive...)

 

[ChesterP]

CZ527 is a good rifle but the factory stocks often let them down. Great little mini-Mausr action. I re-fitted my action to a Boyds stock, fully Devcon bedded and changed the barrel to a 1:8 26" from the slower twist rate one that I acquired it with.

 

[WSSX]

CZ527 is a good rifle but the factory stocks often let them down. Great little mini-Mausr action. I re-fitted my action to a Boyds stock, fully Devcon bedded and changed the barrel to a 1:8 26" from the slower twist rate one that I acquired it with.View attachment 161896

I feel as though that stock issue might count for both these options. That looks smart though, I like it

 

[ChesterP]

It's an accurate rifle, although the trigger isn't the most refined, you can learn to shoot well with it. It's accounted for a lot of vermin species and Munty:

 

[25 Sharps]

It's an accurate rifle, although the trigger isn't the most refined, you can learn to shoot well with it. It's accounted for a lot of vermin species and MuntyView attachment 161900:

Are the other 2 shots under the penny?

 

[ChesterP]

they're through the hole that the first three made

 

[victormeldrew]

CZ527 is a good rifle but the factory stocks often let them down. Great little mini-Mausr action. I re-fitted my action to a Boyds stock, fully Devcon bedded and changed the barrel to a 1:8 26" from the slower twist rate one that I acquired it with.View attachment 161896

CZ527 is a good rifle but the factory stocks often let them down. Great little mini-Mausr action. I re-fitted my action to a Boyds stock, fully Devcon bedded and changed the barrel to a 1:8 26" from the slower twist rate one that I acquired it with.View attachment 161896

Firstly apologies to the OP for cutting in on this thread.

ChesterP, if you don't mind me asking, which model was your rifle originally?
The reason I ask is that I have applied for a variation for a .223 & a CZ527 is on my wish list, along with a Tikka T3X.

Ref your comments on the stocks, are there potential problems with all the factory stocks or only certain designs? My preference is for a synthetic, but this isn't cast in stone.

Regarding the trigger, do the comments in your later post apply to the set trigger also?

Thanks

v

 

[ChesterP]

Mine was a CZ527 Varmint laminate. Stock was ok but too short. Being one of the older rifles it had the slower twist barrel so I fitted a match profile 26 inch Lowthar Walther 1:8 twist to it. It's become a bit of a trigger's broom but the only thing I don't particularly like on it is the trigger. It's ok and you can learn to shoot well with it (I used it for one comp a few years back and scored a 0.26 inch 5 shot group to take 2nd place with that rifle at 100 yds in variable conditions). It's accounted for a heck of a lot of vermin from squirrels on the ground to corvid at distances up to about 400 yds using 60gr Vmax predominantly but I also use 55gr SGKs and 69TMKs with it. Never tried the set trigger.

I'll be honest. If buying new, it'd be the T3x but that's a long action (with bolt stop) which seems wasted on the .223. The little mini Mauser is a really sweet handling action and if you buy a CZ, you can forgive the trigger, get an accurate rifle (it'lll be as good as the T3x on accuracy) for a lot less. The T3x is just a more polished rifle. Saying all that, I wouldn't change my CZBoydsLotharWalther ( )for a T3 . Besides which I have a few T3s amongst others so it's nice to have something different.

 

[Kalahari]

New 527 223s are 1 in 9 twist.

David.

 

[victormeldrew]

Mine was a CZ527 Varmint laminate. Stock was ok but too short. Being one of the older rifles it had the slower twist barrel so I fitted a match profile 26 inch Lowthar Walther 1:8 twist to it. It's become a bit of a trigger's broom but the only thing I don't particularly like on it is the trigger. It's ok and you can learn to shoot well with it (I used it for one comp a few years back and scored a 0.26 inch 5 shot group to take 2nd place with that rifle at 100 yds in variable conditions). It's accounted for a heck of a lot of vermin from squirrels on the ground to corvid at distances up to about 400 yds using 60gr Vmax predominantly but I also use 55gr SGKs and 69TMKs with it. Never tried the set trigger.

I'll be honest. If buying new, it'd be the T3x but that's a long action (with bolt stop) which seems wasted on the .223. The little mini Mauser is a really sweet handling action and if you buy a CZ, you can forgive the trigger, get an accurate rifle (it'lll be as good as the T3x on accuracy) for a lot less. The T3x is just a more polished rifle. Saying all that, I wouldn't change my CZBoydsLotharWalther ( )for a T3 . Besides which I have a few T3s amongst others so it's nice to have something different.

Thanks for your reply.
If is only that the stock is short, that may not be too bad as I'm not the largest guy around. Obviously, as had been said earlier, it would pay to handle any rifle before purchase, but that's not always easy.
I've read on here that CZ triggers can be a bit rough, but that they can be improved with an oil-stone - not that I'd try it myself. I'd get a professional to look at it.
The mini action is certainly attractive. The .223 in a long action does look a little odd as you say.
I'd be looking for a shorter barrel, which cuts the options to two models of the American I think.
Yours does look nice & obviously shoots pretty well. Crows at 400 yards - that's good shooting.

Regards,

v

 

[victormeldrew]

New 527 223s are 1 in 9 twist.

David.

Thanks for the info David.
The T3X in .223 is available in 1 in 8, so a bit of an advantage there for heavier bullets.
I had a look on the CZ website which has lots of info, but doesn't cover everything. However, between there & Mc Avoy Guns website, most details are covered.
One thing I wasn't sure of is whether all models have fully floating barrels. The Mc Avoy Guns website only mentions the Ebony as being fully floated. I've e-mailed Mc Avoy for clarification.

Regards,

v

 

[Kalahari]

Thanks for the info David.
The T3X in .223 is available in 1 in 8, so a bit of an advantage there for heavier bullets.
I had a look on the CZ website which has lots of info, but doesn't cover everything. However, between there & Mc Avoy Guns website, most details are covered.
One thing I wasn't sure of is whether all models have fully floating barrels. The Mc Avoy Guns website only mentions the Ebony as being fully floated. I've e-mailed Mc Avoy for clarification.

Regards,

v

My 223 shoots 62 grainers very snugly indeed for what it is worth.

David.