Humane dispatch pistol

[8x57]

Interesting that .38/.357 seems to be the ‘go to’ calibre for many on here. I know two professional knackermen and a farmer who all have humane despatch pistols. They’re despatching large numbers of horses, cows, pigs and sheep on a daily basis. They all use .32’s.
So what is it about UK deer that requires a .357 magnum?
Tell me again that you don’t just want a pistol!

FWIW I surrendered 4 pistols in 1997. I’m no fan of the handgun ban.

I think that its simply a matter of availability.
.32 pistols and revolvers were never that popular in the U.K. when we could own them. Where as .38/.357 (in revolvers ) was by far the most popular centrefire cartridge so the pool of pistols still available to section 5 dealers for conversion to 2 shot must be much greater in that chambering. I doubt that anyone thinks its necessary to actually use .357 for HAD, almost all would I suppose be using .38spl.
Incidentally the couple of slaughtermen that I knew that used pistols used both .32acp pistols and .38 revolvers.

 

[willowbank]

View attachment 341679

Compromise with a .44 Mares Leg?

Did they ever get ‘Andy Martin’ ??

WB

 

[willowbank]

Some revolvers will drop their cylinders out easily but most require tools. Not particularly difficult mind.

S&W .38 special cylinder almost falls out into the hand... often wondered if an unreststicted cylinder could be obtained... but then why would I really need one.... just musing.

WB

 

[8x57]

It was because the magazine can be modified easily to take more rounds or an unrestricted mag could be purchased.

If its due to a trust issue with us then thats funny when they granted me a high capacity shotgun under section 1 which I'd say is a lot scarier than a little .22

If it's a criminal thing then a semi auto can easily have the slide removed for storage/transport same as removing the bolt from your rifles where as a revolver I believe you may need tools to strip for the same level of security(correct me if I'm wrong)

Some revolvers will drop their cylinders out easily but most require tools. Not particularly difficult mind.

Removing a single small screw in the crane is all that is required to remove the cylinder on most revolvers, quickly and easily done.
When we were travelling for competitions and staying overnight we would often remove the cylinder and keep it in our pockets with the revolvers secured elsewhere by means of a chain or steel rope through the revolver frame.
At the Pistol AD meeting at Bisley one year, a boy who was new to this asked us what we were doing so we explained and he copied us. The following morning when preparing for the day's competition and re-inserting the cylinder I asked him if he had marked his cylinder as if he hadn't and replaced it in the wrong position his timing would be out and he would shave bullets. The other boys cottoned on to this immediately and convinced him that what I was saying was true. He still had a slight bit of doubt and went to the Parker Hale stand in the display tent (Parker Hale were the Smith & Wesson importers) for advice.
When he returned red faced, well I'd never heard him swear before so I didn't realise that he knew such words because he called me one or two things that I couldn't possibly repeat here.
Oh how those of us that are left still loved those shooting weekends.

 

[Selous]

Interesting that .38/.357 seems to be the ‘go to’ calibre for many on here. I know two professional knackermen and a farmer who all have humane despatch pistols. They’re despatching large numbers of horses, cows, pigs and sheep on a daily basis. They all use .32’s.
So what is it about UK deer that requires a .357 magnum?
Tell me again that you don’t just want a pistol!

FWIW I surrendered 4 pistols in 1997. I’m no fan of the handgun ban.

For HD duties the .32 ACP or S&W long is always working at the maximum permitted pressure (or even over maximum!) and still struggles to reach the required power level of 200 joules (147 ft-lbs) as advised by the Humane Slaughter Association. It is not infrequent for lead bullets to fail to penetrate skulls adequately, even on small animals and I have seen this personally on several occasions with the poor animals needing multiple shots. The .32 bullets are generally not going to expand regardless of their construction as the velocity is so low. I consider the .32 adequate for contact shots only on small horses, sheep and calves. It is used beyond its ballistic capabilities for larger animals due to inertia and in my opinion should be made obsolete and drift gracefully into the past with barely a second thought. If you surrendered handguns in 1997 you will be aware of the flexibility of the .38/.357 revolver which has a wide variety of ammunition types from 148 grain wadcutters (224 joules = 165 ft-lbs) through 38 Special +P (331 Joules = 244 ft-lbs) and full house .357 Magnum (715 Joules = 527 ft-lbs). Now for contact distance dispatch the .38 Special will probably be all that you need but there are other situations where a full house load might be needed. For wild deer work this is especially useful where under certain situations chest shooting the deer from a few metres away might be the only viable option available. I can assure you that even on a small roe deer the .32 bullets create tiny wound tracts and therefore kill very slowly in this situation. As always better to have the ability and not need it rather than to need and not have it.

 

[Selous]

.357 isn't our choice it's what's put on us by the FEO, I'd much prefer something smaller and moderated

Your FEO is wise! The only hope of a moderated humane killer is if you do racecourse work in which case the 9mm B&T would be excellent. Revolvers other than the obsolete Nagant cannot readily be suppressed due to the gap between cylinder and forcing cone but I suspect you knew that already!

 

[Danny25790]

Your FEO is wise! The only hope of a moderated humane killer is if you do racecourse work in which case the 9mm B&T would be excellent. Revolvers other than the obsolete Nagant cannot readily be suppressed due to the gap between cylinder and forcing cone but I suspect you knew that already!

Yes well aware of this and the afore mentioned nagant revolver hence why I asked for a semi auto.

 

[Selous]

Yes well aware of this and the afore mentioned nagant revolver hence why I asked for a semi auto.

Unfortunately semi autos are specifically prohibited in the Home Office guidance but not the firearms amendment act. I’m not saying it is impossible to get one but it is much more difficult

 

[Danny25790]

Unfortunately semi autos are specifically prohibited in the Home Office guidance but not the firearms amendment act. I’m not saying it is impossible to get one but it is much more difficult

I know it's possible because 3 people I work with have them moderated, they are .22lr pistols with mods, they were authorised before the new feo came in apparently.

 

[Rake Aboot]

They are however to many who own them interesting

Unfortunately semi autos are specifically prohibited in the Home Office guidance but not the firearms amendment act. I’m not saying it is impossible to get one but it is much more difficult

Semi auto is prohibited under the HO guidelines?

Do you have a link to that please ?

 

[Jon P]

For HD duties the .32 ACP or S&W long is always working at the maximum permitted pressure (or even over maximum!) and still struggles to reach the required power level of 200 joules (147 ft-lbs) as advised by the Humane Slaughter Association. It is not infrequent for lead bullets to fail to penetrate skulls adequately, even on small animals and I have seen this personally on several occasions with the poor animals needing multiple shots. The .32 bullets are generally not going to expand regardless of their construction as the velocity is so low. I consider the .32 adequate for contact shots only on small horses, sheep and calves. It is used beyond its ballistic capabilities for larger animals due to inertia and in my opinion should be made obsolete and drift gracefully into the past with barely a second thought. If you surrendered handguns in 1997 you will be aware of the flexibility of the .38/.357 revolver which has a wide variety of ammunition types from 148 grain wadcutters (224 joules = 165 ft-lbs) through 38 Special +P (331 Joules = 244 ft-lbs) and full house .357 Magnum (715 Joules = 527 ft-lbs). Now for contact distance dispatch the .38 Special will probably be all that you need but there are other situations where a full house load might be needed. For wild deer work this is especially useful where under certain situations chest shooting the deer from a few metres away might be the only viable option available. I can assure you that even on a small roe deer the .32 bullets create tiny wound tracts and therefore kill very slowly in this situation. As always better to have the ability and not need it rather than to need and not have it.

I have shot a fair few large horse and bullocks up to around 30 month old with my .32 with no issues, one shot and they down and out, my local horse vet has a .22 that he is shooting horse with regularly without issue. Obviously all these are close quarters shooting with the correct bullet placement. Wild deer at 5 yds would be a different senario

 

[6pt-sika]

For a couple years I carried a handgun for coupe de Grace if needed . I first carried a nice S&W 629 4” with my handloads at 20 yards offhand I could get reasonable groups , later I went to the Kimber 1911
5” I still have in 45 ACP . My final stab at a dispatch gun was a very nice S&W 19-3 4” also with my handloads . I carried all three guns in high ride pancake holsters . In the three seAsons I caRried a sidearm I never needed it .

 

[doric_prince]

Semi auto is prohibited under the HO guidelines?

Do you have a link to that please ?

As these are guidelines I’m not sure they can be accurately described as “prohibited” (I understand specifics would need to be set out in the associated legislation, which I’m not sighted on), however the HO guidelines from 2022, page 104, para 12.38 Humane Killing of Animals ;

Police forces should note that self-loading (semi-automatic) handguns should not be authorised for the slaughter or humane destruction of animals, as it is not possible to permanently adapt the capacity of handguns which make use of a removable magazine.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...65f4b9/Firearms_guide_November_2022.pdf#page8

 

[Selous]

Semi auto is prohibited under the HO guidelines?

Do you have a link to that please ?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/636a6dbf8fa8f5358665f4b9/Firearms_guide_November_2022.pdf#page96

Sections 12.38 and 12.39
I’m not saying it is impossible to get a semi auto or a moderator but it will be very difficult.

 

[Mike L]

Crikey, is this still running?

 

[VSS]

Crikey, is this still running?

Intentional pun?

 

[Webley]

Crikey, is this still running?

Yep, it's not been put down yet.

 

[Webley]

Thank you all for your responses and great Information on this subject really appreciate your time and knowledge.

I'm currently looking at a ruger gp100 .357 I did also request a moderated. 22lr but was refused as dispatching caged fox/mink in rural/urban environments wasn't a good enough reason, I'm also aware that a .22lr has enough energy to dispatch deer with good shot placement (I know of a couple of people who use this) but unfortunately the powers at be seem to be obsessed with .357 for some reason when smaller calibres will do the job perfectly fine.

An alternative you could try requesting for the .22 option is an S1 Long Barrelled Pistol (LBP) slot, with the appropriate conditions. I have a Grand Power K22 Whisper LBP for target shooting as my local range is air rifle and moderated .22lr only. The barrel is over 300mm and the coat hanger at the back takes it over 600mm in OAL. The barrel is drilled to use the moderator that covers the barrel infront of the frame. Used they come up around £650-700. You could ask a smith to drill and reproof a non whisper barrel I suspect.

 

[olliehopes]

An alternative you could try requesting for the .22 option is an S1 Long Barrelled Pistol (LBP) slot, with the appropriate conditions. I have a Grand Power K22 Whisper LBP for target shooting as my local range is air rifle and moderated .22lr only. The barrel is over 300mm and the coat hanger at the back takes it over 600mm in OAL. The barrel is drilled to use the moderator that covers the barrel infront of the frame. Used they come up around £650-700. You could ask a smith to drill and reproof a non whisper barrel I suspect.

Might as well carry a 12" barrelled boat paddle stock ruger 10/22. My one isn't much more that 600mm long!

 

[Jon P]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/636a6dbf8fa8f5358665f4b9/Firearms_guide_November_2022.pdf#page96

Sections 12.38 and 12.39
I’m not saying it is impossible to get a semi auto or a moderator but it will be very difficult.

I was expecting some drama with my semi auto on last years renewal, but all went smoothly luckily. Have had it a long time though.