I hate being right sometimes.

I shoot a Charles Lancaster made in the late 1800's. 2.5" chambers with 30" Damascus barrels.
A spring broke on it at the end of last season so it is away getting fixed but I wouldn't be without it for the world. Have shot with it since I was 14 and it just feels right when I raise it.
I don't really pheasant shoot but the odd day that I get to attend it does fine as long as I know my limits. I mainly shoot snipe, ducks and woodcock with it and find that 30gm of 7's or 6's are plenty within sensible ranges.
I also have a Remington auto for shooting steel but totally prefer using the Lancaster.
 
shakey jake said:
Never understand killing sporting hens at the end of the season? Removing the best genes and preserving low birds
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I understand what you are saying but frankly released hens are very poor mothers. There may be several hundred birds left on the ground at the end of the season but despite our best efforts at vermin control they add very little to the next season.
 
Sika98k said:
I understand what you are saying but frankly released hens are very poor mothers. There may be several hundred birds left on the ground at the end of the season but despite our best efforts at vermin control they add very little to the next season.
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True, they make poor mothers and have a very low survival rate themselves, buzzards take a lot locally. A lot of them are also carrying shot having spent the previous season flying over the guns. They seem to keep the remaining cock birds around until July or so. Without hens the cocks range widely. The older cocks will also beat the living snot out of your new poults when you release them.
 
Dunwaters said:
True, they make poor mothers and have a very low survival rate themselves, buzzards take a lot locally. A lot of them are also carrying shot having spent the previous season flying over the guns. They seem to keep the remaining cock birds around until July or so. Without hens the cocks range widely. The older cocks will also beat the living snot out of your new poults when you release them.
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how are the buzzards still alive after feeding on lead shot game ? surely thered be none left ????
 
Chris Richardson said:
how are the buzzards still alive after feeding on lead shot game ? surely thered be none left ????
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I honestly don’t know.
Every single driven shoot I know of in Wicklow has an absolute cloud of buzzard, kite, grey crow and raven overhead. They all seem to be thriving.
Given that the shoots release release 10’s of thousands of pheasant and partridge per season and that 60% of that number are not accounted for in the bag return, that represents a major protein dump into the area, which is a pretty harsh environment. The birds are protected ( except for the grey crows ) and the shoots are tightly monitored for compliance with licence conditions. Theres no doubt that the shoots are loosing large numbers of birds, and there’s no doubt that the obligate carnivores are attracted to the sites by the artificial concentration of protein. There is some dispersal of the scavengers during the breeding breeding season, but all the site’s support a higher than usual population of scavengers all year round.
I don’t know how many scavengers are picked up annually by the keepers, (and they won’t admit that it happens either).
Without that information we’re guessing, but I wouldn’t be too shocked to find that they pick up quite a few and that the dead birds are replaced by birds from the surrounding areas attracted by the extra protein.
We might get some idea of the impact of both the lead and the consequences of having that many scavengers concentrated in a relatively small area by a massive protein dump if it was studied, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon for several reasons.
 
Dunwaters said:
I honestly don’t know.
Every single driven shoot I know of in Wicklow has an absolute cloud of buzzard, kite, grey crow and raven overhead. They all seem to be thriving.
Given that the shoots release release 10’s of thousands of pheasant and partridge per season and that 60% of that number are not accounted for in the bag return, that represents a major protein dump into the area, which is a pretty harsh environment. The birds are protected ( except for the grey crows ) and the shoots are tightly monitored for compliance with licence conditions. Theres no doubt that the shoots are loosing large numbers of birds, and there’s no doubt that the obligate carnivores are attracted to the sites by the artificial concentration of protein. There is some dispersal of the scavengers during the breeding breeding season, but all the site’s support a higher than usual population of scavengers all year round.
I don’t know how many scavengers are picked up annually by the keepers, (and they won’t admit that it happens either).
Without that information we’re guessing, but I wouldn’t be too shocked to find that they pick up quite a few and that the dead birds are replaced by birds from the surrounding areas attracted by the extra protein.
We might get some idea of the impact of both the lead and the consequences of having that many scavengers concentrated in a relatively small area by a massive protein dump if it was studied, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon for several reasons.
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i just find it very odd that BOP are thriving on every driven shoot i know ..........
 
Chris Richardson said:
i just find it very odd that BOP are thriving on every driven shoot i know ..........
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I think you are trying to not say the obvious.

The lead ban has nothing to do with the health of anything and everything to do with preserving the status quo for the wealthy elite. It is the purest example of modern politics today. Officiated bull ****.
 
Chris Richardson said:
i just find it very odd that BOP are thriving on every driven shoot i know ..........
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I don’t find it at all surprising. BOP are obligate carnivores, driven shoots are major sources of meat, both as prey and as carrion, around 60% of all the meat they produce goes to waste/ is not accounted for.
Therefore it is entirely logical that shoots attract BOP in high concentrations, plus other scavengers and hunters from the surrounding areas and concentrates them all in the area where food is most plentiful.
We know that BOP are susceptible to lead poisoning, therefore it is logical to suspect that BOP concentrations on shoots are being affected by lead poisoning associated with shooting activity.
It’s also completely logical that if BOP and scavengers are being found dead by shoot employees they are not being reported, particularly at the moment.
The birds on shoots can be affected with relative high mortality rates without discernible effects on the population at large.
 
Dunwaters said:
I don’t find it at all surprising. BOP are obligate carnivores, driven shoots are major sources of meat, both as prey and as carrion, around 60% of all the meat they produce goes to waste/ is not accounted for.
Therefore it is entirely logical that shoots attract BOP in high concentrations, plus other scavengers and hunters from the surrounding areas and concentrates them all in the area where food is most plentiful.
We know that BOP are susceptible to lead poisoning, therefore it is logical to suspect that BOP concentrations on shoots are being affected by lead poisoning associated with shooting activity.
It’s also completely logical that if BOP and scavengers are being found dead by shoot employees they are not being reported, particularly at the moment.
The birds on shoots can be affected with relative high mortality rates without discernible effects on the population at large.
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its funny because ive been on one estate for ten years now keeper on one side is a very good friend of mine with a driven shoot the other side is my walked up shoot and i stalk the lot , never between us have we ever found any dead kites buzzards etc and theyre thriving .........
 
Chris Richardson said:
its funny because ive been on one estate for ten years now keeper on one side is a very good friend of mine with a driven shoot the other side is my walked up shoot and i stalk the lot , never between us have we ever found any dead kites buzzards etc and theyre thriving .........
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Then they must be heading to the legendary BOP cemetery when the time comes, they’re definitely not immortal. I’ve found a fair few over the years, plus one dead swan.
I don’t report them anymore, if you make a report the location is recorded and if it happens often enough it is designated as a potential mortality black spot and investigated.
 
Someone needs to mention this in a discussion with Packham on national tv/radio.

'Raptor numbers are high currently'
'Yes, and we'd like to boost them further by banning shooting and the gamekeepers who persecute them'
'How's that going to boost them further?'
'Well releasing millions of non native birds is awful for nature and British wildlife.'
'You do realise that over half the birds released aren't shot? What do you think the birds of prey are eating? What do you think will happen to bird of prey populations if you ban releasing birds for shooting? They will crash, and you will be responsible. Mr Packham, if you want birds of prey to do well, you need shooting. You're basically getting a free food supply for the birds you want, paid for by other people. You *need* shooting.'
 
Dunwaters said:
Then they must be heading to the legendary BOP cemetery when the time comes, they’re definitely not immortal. I’ve found a fair few over the years, plus one dead swan.
I don’t report them anymore, if you make a report the location is recorded and if it happens often enough it is designated as a potential mortality black spot and investigated.
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I found a dead kestrel some years ago on the estate where i live and once a dead buzzard on an estate down south i used to stalk but thats it , and considering how much time i spend outdoors thats not a lot ...................
 
Smellydog said:
I think you are trying to not say the obvious.

The lead ban has nothing to do with the health of anything and everything to do with preserving the status quo for the wealthy elite. It is the purest example of modern politics today. Officiated bull ****.
Click to expand...
Chris Richardson said:
its funny because ive been on one estate for ten years now keeper on one side is a very good friend of mine with a driven shoot the other side is my walked up shoot and i stalk the lot , never between us have we ever found any dead kites buzzards etc and theyre thriving .........
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You two gentlemen have a real difficulty with accepting any evidence from anyone else, so here’s a little experiment for you both.
Get a few pheasant and or partridge chicks, put some 7.5 shot in their food and grit.
Get a few mallard chicks, do the same.
Buy a couple of BOP, tiercel peregrines are almost free to good homes, feed them birds and rabbit that contain lead shot.

Let us know how you get on.
 
Dunwaters said:
You two gentlemen have a real difficulty with accepting any evidence from anyone else, so here’s a little experiment for you both.
Get a few pheasant and or partridge chicks, put some 7.5 shot in their food and grit.
Get a few mallard chicks, do the same.
Buy a couple of BOP, tiercel peregrines are almost free to good homes, feed them birds and rabbit that contain lead shot.

Let us know how you get on.
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i think youre avoiding the question somewhat , why arent wild birds struggling while obviously scavenging on lead shot game ? you yourself admit youre using lead in your rifles these days arent you worried aboiut the poor kites and buzzards ?
 
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