'I just like killing things'

[JohnSmith]

….

…. Look at indigenous tribes around the world and their interaction with the animals they hunt, nearly always for food.

For food, yes. But don’t mistake hunting for food with having respect for animals or any spiritual connections to them. They do not go hand in hand.

 

[alberta boy]

….


For food, yes. But don’t mistake hunting for food with having respect for animals or any spiritual connections to them. They do not go hand in hand.

Very true .

AB

 

[Pedro]

So here's some thoughts from my addled brain:

As a species, we are both omnivores and hunter gatherers, or to be exact, that's how we started out and have spent most of our existence since evolving. It's natural that the things we need to do as a species, we enjoy. It's a natural development. So to reproduce, we need to have sex. So sex is enjoyable. To exist, we need to eat, so to forage and hunt naturally becomes enjoyable. It's a natural development that goes on for every species on Earth. Pigs have developed the ability to snuffle out truffles. Monkeys use sticks to poke into termite mounds to get snacks. Big cats have developed methods to stalk and bring down prey bigger than themselves and so on. And I'm convinced that every animal enjoys being successful at what it does. So to have a successful stalk is very pleasing. It's natural, it's within us. And for those who no longer hunt, mostly you will find they have substituted it for something that releases a similar amount of enjoyment in their work. Police officers tracking down a criminal and having a successful prosecution or business people becoming successful or a surgeon operating successfully. All apply knowledge and experience to put food on the table.

But simply killing is another matter. If you could walk up to a deer that would just stand there whilst you shot it at point blank range, there's nothing enjoyable about that. The only advantage would be the food it provides. There's no sense of a job well done, of having successfully applied experience and knowledge. So the enjoyment endorphins aren't released. A slaughter man might enjoy his job for many reasons, but shooting a captive bolt into a farm animal specifically I think (hope) won't be one of them.

Which brings us round to the "I just like killing things". That, simply isn't normal and there's two ways to look at it. Maybe the author of that comment is a little poor at communicating and what he means is that he enjoys the whole experience of outwitting his quarry, whether that is by stalking, controlling vermin or whatever, the end result of which is killing and he's expressed himself badly. Or maybe he's simply a psychopath. Hate to think which.

Anyway, my addled brain now says it's time for bed. Good night.

 

[User00040]

 

[John Gryphon]

Have respect and a love and understanding of your chosen quarry

Thats hard to do when 9 out of 10 of your hens have had their heads taken by Reynard.


As far as indigenous tribes respect there were Red Indians that revered their Bison but had not one problem with running them over a jump/cliff.
Animals with broken legs were left at times as they stayed fresh.

 

[Bo Diddley]

Different times and different measures, They used what means they had to survive, just like we would in the given circumstances, they needed meat whilst it was available to see them through, so they killed plenty, the easy way. They dried enough to last them through the lean times, and used the skins and almost everything else as well. Same as the lot that lived in your neck of woods, they lived with the land and not against it.

 

[Bo Diddley]

….


For food, yes. But don’t mistake hunting for food with having respect for animals or any spiritual connections to them. They do not go hand in hand.

Maybe not for you sir!

 

[Bo Diddley]

Have been told by said group that lamping foxes is cruel and leaves wounded animals to die - this was said with a straight face knowing that I shot (and recovered) more foxes in a year than they "accidently" killed. Do the right thing and admit you like the kill.

Hunting with dogs the quarry either survives to live another day unharmed or dies fairly swiftly, with shooting a small percentage will get wounded and can't be found, it just happens that way.

 

[JohnSmith]

Maybe not for you sir!

I wasnt speaking about myself… alberta boy gets it.

 

[User00033]

When I’m cleaning out a block of pest goats, some days I can shoot the best part of a 100 round box of ammo. On the odd occasion over the years, more. They are mostly left to rot in the sun - the pigs will clean them up.

I enjoy the work in that it is satisfying to turn previously unproductive, overrun land into productive land. I also enjoy eating goats from time-to-time. I particularly enjoy the satisfaction of killing them cleanly at longer ranges, having loaded the ammunition and setup the rifle & optics myself. I’m good at it.

When I’m doing the same with red deer - culling to waste - it doesn’t feel quite the same. After a while (say a week or so), I get a bit sick of it. But it has to be done. We have so much venison we could eat eye fillet every night of the year if we wanted. But I still don’t like leaving it behind.

We hunt pigs with dogs. We kill them with a sticking knife, or shoot them at very close range with a .44.

I love killing rats. That’s a real passion of mine. I hate rats.

So I guess you could say I enjoy killing.

Does this make me a bad person?

 

[foxhunter]

When I’m cleaning out a block of pest goats, some days I can shoot the best part of a 100 round box of ammo. On the odd occasion over the years, more. They are mostly left to rot in the sun - the pigs will clean them up.

I enjoy the work in that it is satisfying to turn previously unproductive, overrun land into productive land. I also enjoy eating goats from time-to-time. I particularly enjoy the satisfaction of killing them cleanly at longer ranges, having loaded the ammunition and setup the rifle & optics myself. I’m good at it.

When I’m doing the same with red deer - culling to waste - it doesn’t feel quite the same. After a while (say a week or so), I get a bit sick of it. But it has to be done. We have so much venison we could eat eye fillet every night of the year if we wanted. But I still don’t like leaving it behind.

We hunt pigs with dogs. We kill them with a sticking knife, or shoot them at very close range with a .44.

I love killing rats. That’s a real passion of mine. I hate rats.

So I guess you could say I enjoy killing.

Does this make me a bad person?

No.

 

[User00035]

Enjoying killing a pest because it's a good job done is fine in my book. Nothing wrong with that, provided it means killing them humanely. It would be a different matter if someone enjoyed inflicting suffering maliciously, either for fun or in a spirit of vengeance.

I had some young rabbits living in my garden hedge once. They were wreaking havoc in my garden at night and I needed every one gone so every tool in the box was used to eradicate them, including setting cage traps.

One day I found a cage trap with two enormous rats in it. When I shot the first one with an air rifle the other went absolutely berserk tearing round the cage and screaming its head off. It was terrified because as an intelligent creature it knew what was coming to it. I didn't enjoy causing that torment. But at the same time there was no way I was going to let it go and there are few more satisfying and "enjoyable" forms of shooting that ratting in farm buildings at night with NV and an air rifle.

 

[User00040]

Does this make me a bad person?

*so you ask whilst reclining into the shrink's leather chaise lounge*

Shrink: 'We will address that in due course, but first, describe to me your relationship with your father...'

 

[Dunwaters]

This should be the essence of whatever form of hunting/shooting/fishing that any of us take part in

View attachment 250990

Close, very close.
The whole point of hunting is the hunt itself, you dont hunt to kill, you kill to have hunted. When you go out the object of the exercise is to go hunting, the kill is an essential part of the exercise but is secondary to the hunt.
How many times have you had a really enjoyable day out and got nothing?
How often have you managed to kill something fairly easily and felt disappointed by the day?
Hunting and fishing are the same in that the fish or game are the subject of the exercise but not the object.
The object of the exercise is the process.
Ortega Y Gasset, explains it far better than I can, well worth a browse.

 

[John Gryphon]

but first, describe to me your relationship with your father...'

It wasnt his father it was Father O`Fluerty from the local church ha ha ha

 

[User00035]

Close, very close.
The whole point of hunting is the hunt itself, you dont hunt to kill, you kill to have hunted. When you go out the object of the exercise is to go hunting, the kill is an essential part of the exercise but is secondary to the hunt.
How many times have you had a really enjoyable day out and got nothing?
How often have you managed to kill something fairly easily and felt disappointed by the day?
Hunting and fishing are the same in that the fish or game are the subject of the exercise but not the object.
The object of the exercise is the process.
Ortega Y Gasset, explains it far better than I can, well worth a browse.

Yep. That's why it's called deer stalking, not deer killing. I know there's quite a few client stalkers who have to be reminded of this.

I know of a couple of very experienced stalkers who were DEFRA approved marksmen during the 2001 foot and mouth outbreak. One, a good friend of mine shot a barrel out slaughtering cattle. He didn't enjoy it. Said it was the worst thing he'd ever done in his life.

 

[VSS]

There are only two occasions when I actually think about the killing, and am affected by it.
The first is when I have to carry out HD, for example on an RTA deer, or perhaps a newborn lamb that has a deformity and has to be KOTH at birth. Very mixed feelings, partly glad to have ended suffering, and partly remorse that it had to end that way - the animal should have lived to run another day.
The second is when I have to take a follow up shot on a deer. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that there is something abhorrent about shooting a deer that's lying helpless on the ground, particularly when there's a bit of guilt that I messed up the first shot.

Other than than those two examples, I don't give it a moment of thought, whether slaughtering domestic livestock, shooting deer or killing pests. The killing is just one very, very small (and, dare I say it) relatively insignificant part of a long chain of events that begins a long time before, and continues a long time after, you squeeze the trigger. And it's over in a fraction of a second. There's no time to feel either enjoyment or revulsion, the mind has already moved on to the next step of the process.

Think of everything that leads up to that kill: applying for a FAC, acquiring a rifle, accumulating kit, obtaining permission, learning the ground - it may take several years to get this far. And then there's the stalk, identifying the quarry, assessing safety, getting into a good shooting position - it may take several blank outings to get this far.
Then there's the shot - a split second.
Next, reload, cover the beast, eventually relax, walk over, check reflex, gralloch, extract, larder - another few hours.
A week in the chiller.
A day butchering.
Up to six months in the freezer.
Cook, eat, enjoy. That's the time for enjoyment. Enjoyment of the culmination of the whole long winded process - which included the act of taking a life as little more than an incidental part of it.

 

[Woodsmoke]

There are only two occasions when I actually think about the killing, and am affected by it.
The first is when I have to carry out HD, for example on an RTA deer, or perhaps a newborn lamb that has a deformity and has to be KOTH at birth. Very mixed feelings, partly glad to have ended suffering, and partly remorse that it had to end that way - the animal should have lived to run another day.
The second is when I have to take a follow up shot on a deer. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that there is something abhorrent about shooting a deer that's lying helpless on the ground, particularly when there's a bit of guilt that I messed up the first shot.

That actually mirrors my own feelings to a 'T'. Especially when the follow-up shot is down to my own failings. The guilt is very real, and so it should be.

I find a great deal of satisfaction in taking a good clean shot. Immediately afterwards, my main feeling is one of relief that the shot went well, followed almost instantly by a twinge of regret. However, that's tempered by the fact we love venison in our house, and as with any meat something has to die to provide it. It's the very nature of things. I shoot for meat rather than trophies, although I won't won't waste an opportunity if one presents itself, and my over-riding feeling at the conclusion of a successful stalk is the satisfaction of providing food. So no, I can't say I personally enjoy the act of killing itself, but it's a necessary stage in the process of providing meat, and ii behoves us to do it as quickly, skilfully, and humanely as we possibly can, for both the welfare of the animal itself, and our own peace of mind.

 

[Woodsy]

Very interesting/thought provoking thread. There’s a book which is a collection of essays by various authors called ‘A Hunters Heart; Honest Essays on Bloodsports’. It’s a good read and sheds light on much of what is being discussed in this thread.

 

[foxdropper]

The term blood sports dosnt sit that well with me tbh.The term conjures up scenes of bare knuckle fighting ,bear baiting ,cock fighting and other banned pasttimes where claret is very much part of the result .Fieldsports is much softer and more PC perhaps .I’m mindful of what others think to a degree but not enough to change or cloak anything I do .
Back the thread - most lads start off with the killing being everything UNLESS they are taught by a mentor who’s been through that stage and is able to look back and see how crass it was .
I never had a mentor with a gun ,dogs yes but shooting for me was kill it all with an airgun .That changed when I start keepering and the head was very selective on what construed vermin even back then in what some described as the good old days .Yes there was freedom but knowing what we know now I reckon things were killed for the sake of it .