Boghossian
Well-Known Member
There's a gunshop in High Barnet that stocks reloading supplies and is open on Saturdays....though I don't think you liked it very much last time.
In which the Pine Marten asks a tonne of newbie questions on reloading.
- Thread starter Pine Marten
- Start date
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
K, that goes without saying. I have several offers locally of help and intend to take up at least one of them.
Poop happens. And every man should have at least one (1) "shed" in his liftime. Just not one subject to an NRA lease!
K
K
Toxster
Well-Known Member
limulus
Well-Known Member
Do as others say here or use a gem market to colour a bullet then load it. You can then remove the bullet and see where the ink has been removed to to accurately determine where the rifling starts.
N140 is a very versatile powder.
Ha ha - shouldn't these worn by all the others on the range a the time?
Would suggest lots of sandbags too but they might be in short supply right now...
On the question of crimping improving accuracy, how about those who promote that theory raising the question on a bench rest forum & then letting the rest of us know what the responses were - surely if it makes that much difference all the serious BR boys must be doing it & can tell us mere mortals how best to do it. Might struggle doing it with my 6mmBR though as the competition die set I have doesn't do crimps - could I modify one of Mr Lees 243 dies to do it do you think??
caorach
Well-Known Member
Start by keeping your life as simple as possible - buy the minimum amount of stuff and engage in the minimum amount of messing about to get you a round built that will shoot, then you can add other stuff like seating to lands and so on. With supplies difficult to get, and costly, this will save you a lot of bother.
I'd guess your reloading manual will have an OAL listed. Load to this to start with. Reloading is a simple matter of stuffing a primer, powder and bullet into a case. Once you get that done and get a reasonable group out of it then you can worry about all the OCD stuff. I suspect that a lot of the OCD stuff is on very dodgy ground in terms of actually evidence that it works, not that this stops me doing some of it, so it is more a matter of preference than need. It also burns through reloading supplies PDQ if you need to shoot a few groups every time you change some small thing whereas if you take the measurements and loads from the book and just go with them my bet is you will get a usable, decent, load no problem. Then you can mess with the small details and try to cut a fraction of an inch off your group. Before you start take a look at how many rounds you are going to have to shoot to get any statistically significant results
One thing that might speed stuff up for you, in terms of component use - most rifles seems to shoot well with something pretty close to a max load of powder. Given this consult your manual and load up one round each at a range of powder weights, using the manual OAL etc., from min to max. You will probably end up with 5 - 10 rounds, I know my rifle well and almost always use the same power so I'd usually load at 1 grain intervals but you might want to use 0.5 grain intervals. Start at the min and shoot them and check each one for pressure, you don't need a target or anything as all you are looking for is pressure but it might be fun to put them into a target. Most rifles will be fine right up to book max so if you get no pressure signs then start working on a load around the max. Of course if you get pressure signs then you need to back off but the balance of probabilities is that you will get to book max no problems.
The FL sizing thing is interesting because I have a Blaser and was told that the world would end if I didn't FL size for it, neck sizing would cause my head to drop off, I was assured. Then I tried neck sizing and found that it was a lot easier and took less time and produced good ammo - I use the Lee collet die and so there is no lube to mess about with etc. I've been neck sizing for a long time now with no problems and some cases haven't seen the FL sizer in their lifetime, I use Lapua brass straight out of the box, trimmed and then loaded. I understand the reasoning behind the claims that you need to FL size but in approx 2000 rounds of reloads I've never actually found any practical requirement for it. So, my advice is to Fl size if you want but neck sizing can be quicker and more handy and until you've tried it for yourself you can't know if it will cause you problems.
I'd guess your reloading manual will have an OAL listed. Load to this to start with. Reloading is a simple matter of stuffing a primer, powder and bullet into a case. Once you get that done and get a reasonable group out of it then you can worry about all the OCD stuff. I suspect that a lot of the OCD stuff is on very dodgy ground in terms of actually evidence that it works, not that this stops me doing some of it, so it is more a matter of preference than need. It also burns through reloading supplies PDQ if you need to shoot a few groups every time you change some small thing whereas if you take the measurements and loads from the book and just go with them my bet is you will get a usable, decent, load no problem. Then you can mess with the small details and try to cut a fraction of an inch off your group. Before you start take a look at how many rounds you are going to have to shoot to get any statistically significant results
One thing that might speed stuff up for you, in terms of component use - most rifles seems to shoot well with something pretty close to a max load of powder. Given this consult your manual and load up one round each at a range of powder weights, using the manual OAL etc., from min to max. You will probably end up with 5 - 10 rounds, I know my rifle well and almost always use the same power so I'd usually load at 1 grain intervals but you might want to use 0.5 grain intervals. Start at the min and shoot them and check each one for pressure, you don't need a target or anything as all you are looking for is pressure but it might be fun to put them into a target. Most rifles will be fine right up to book max so if you get no pressure signs then start working on a load around the max. Of course if you get pressure signs then you need to back off but the balance of probabilities is that you will get to book max no problems.
The FL sizing thing is interesting because I have a Blaser and was told that the world would end if I didn't FL size for it, neck sizing would cause my head to drop off, I was assured. Then I tried neck sizing and found that it was a lot easier and took less time and produced good ammo - I use the Lee collet die and so there is no lube to mess about with etc. I've been neck sizing for a long time now with no problems and some cases haven't seen the FL sizer in their lifetime, I use Lapua brass straight out of the box, trimmed and then loaded. I understand the reasoning behind the claims that you need to FL size but in approx 2000 rounds of reloads I've never actually found any practical requirement for it. So, my advice is to Fl size if you want but neck sizing can be quicker and more handy and until you've tried it for yourself you can't know if it will cause you problems.
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
My 2p...
1) ease of chambering. Thats it. that's why they specify "Hunting" rounds.
Negated by dry chambering any rounds you are concerned about
any rounds in my magazine have already gone through the chamber regardless of FL/Neck sizing
good practice to eliminate the "oh ****" moment when your follow up shot or second beast is off the menu because a case lip has stopped a chambering.
People say a FL size is more consistent...it is...if you are, move the collar 1/10 of a turn and you have a slightly different shoulder profile.
You can't move your rifles chamber
IMO Neck size until you can't (FWIW I have not reached the point with .270, .243 or .222 in 2-3 years on neck sizing!!!)
2) Crimping can be useless, it can also mean the difference between 1" and 0.2" groups! decent neck tension will negate bullets moving under recoil unless your chosen arms are GPMG!
3) you can dismantle anything carefully. I have even pushed out unknown. unfired primers, I test fired them and the work but for the sake of 2-3p its not worth the risk of using them in anger
4) possible drop by 50-100fps per inch - caveat - velocity isn't everything. If its accurate and some way up the load table move on to the next thing, not worth worrying about unless its .243 and you insist on firing 100gr through it (deer legal energy requirements withstanding)
some of my loads are deliberately low .243/100gr - 2750fps, .270/130gr- 2800fps - 300fps or so off factory. they are accurate and the deer don't have chronos!
5) Miles at MBR, he is in Twickenham, only one I know and a nice bloke to boot, MBR Sporting, we sell 22 and centrefire ammunition, reloading components and cleaning equipment
1) ease of chambering. Thats it. that's why they specify "Hunting" rounds.
Negated by dry chambering any rounds you are concerned about
any rounds in my magazine have already gone through the chamber regardless of FL/Neck sizing
good practice to eliminate the "oh ****" moment when your follow up shot or second beast is off the menu because a case lip has stopped a chambering.
People say a FL size is more consistent...it is...if you are, move the collar 1/10 of a turn and you have a slightly different shoulder profile.
You can't move your rifles chamber
IMO Neck size until you can't (FWIW I have not reached the point with .270, .243 or .222 in 2-3 years on neck sizing!!!)
2) Crimping can be useless, it can also mean the difference between 1" and 0.2" groups! decent neck tension will negate bullets moving under recoil unless your chosen arms are GPMG!
3) you can dismantle anything carefully. I have even pushed out unknown. unfired primers, I test fired them and the work but for the sake of 2-3p its not worth the risk of using them in anger
4) possible drop by 50-100fps per inch - caveat - velocity isn't everything. If its accurate and some way up the load table move on to the next thing, not worth worrying about unless its .243 and you insist on firing 100gr through it (deer legal energy requirements withstanding)
some of my loads are deliberately low .243/100gr - 2750fps, .270/130gr- 2800fps - 300fps or so off factory. they are accurate and the deer don't have chronos!
5) Miles at MBR, he is in Twickenham, only one I know and a nice bloke to boot, MBR Sporting, we sell 22 and centrefire ammunition, reloading components and cleaning equipment
Uncle Norm
Well-Known Member
I use the RCBS precision micrometre for .243 and .30-06. It is calibre specific but simple to use and will allow you to establish overall length (seating depths) and shoulder measurements.
I cannot help with its relevant merits as I have not used other types.
I cannot help with its relevant merits as I have not used other types.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Useful tip, thanks! That's not far from me. He seems to have jujst about everything in stock except for 7mm bullets, of which he just has Sierra soft points (are these the Game Kings?). Although these are probably fine. Mr C. Hawks seems to put them on a par with Speer HotCor, Nosler BTs and so on.
Here's another question for you: we don't seem to hear very much about European bullets, of which there must be loads. Who's hiding them all? Where are all the Sako, Norma, S&B bullets?
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately , they are pretty much all American bullets loaded into European cartridges.
nope
Norma and RWS are two of the biggest bullet manufacturers in Europe
getting your mitts on components however is very tricky!
Here is a thought or two:
1. Focus on developing the most accurate round using the bullet matched to what you intend to shoot. Given you won’t be firing that many at the moment in anger so-to-speak you could afford to select the highest quality game bullet regardless of price.
2. Develop an accurate 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] load using the cheapest bullet available whatever the weight and type to facilitate plenty of range practice. The handicap here is you’ve chosen a calibre that is not well served at this price point as would not be the case had you gone for a 308.
Hope this makes sense as other than getting to grips with all your new toys the most important thing is you get to shoot rifle far more and ideally in BSRC competition as nothing else comes close to replicating a buck in your sights pulse rate.
The BSRC Stalkers Match is immanent.
Cheers
K
1. Focus on developing the most accurate round using the bullet matched to what you intend to shoot. Given you won’t be firing that many at the moment in anger so-to-speak you could afford to select the highest quality game bullet regardless of price.
2. Develop an accurate 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] load using the cheapest bullet available whatever the weight and type to facilitate plenty of range practice. The handicap here is you’ve chosen a calibre that is not well served at this price point as would not be the case had you gone for a 308.
Hope this makes sense as other than getting to grips with all your new toys the most important thing is you get to shoot rifle far more and ideally in BSRC competition as nothing else comes close to replicating a buck in your sights pulse rate.
The BSRC Stalkers Match is immanent.
Cheers
K
Digger686
Well-Known Member
I might well be wrong, but I always thought that Lee's recommendation for full-length sizing and crimping stemmed from the use of semi-auto rifles - the full-length sizing ensures that the rounds are fully seated into the chamber by the bolt return, while crimping resists the higher forces which the rounds are likely to be subjected to.
Maybe some of the more knowledgeable members know better, if I am wrong please let me know (always keen to learn).
Maybe some of the more knowledgeable members know better, if I am wrong please let me know (always keen to learn).
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
It's ridiculous, isn't it? I use a French forum too and the reloaders there are always trying all all sorts of weird and wonderful bullets, from smaller manufacturers too, and you know how? They order them by post. There's actually a manufacturer on there called Freyr who is the sole importer of a couple of niche bullets, and develops hunting factory rounds with the help of the assembled online community. They report back on the effects, terminal ballistics, calibres they'd like and so on, and Freyr uses all this feedback to develop a range of products tailored to the French market. They also supply the bullets to reloaders.
And it's possible for this company to grow little by little and by word of mouth in this way without a massive, opaque distribution network because they can use mail order, damn it. Is it possible to import expanding bullets easily for reloading?
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
I seem to remember a thread not so long ago discussing the legality of ordering expending bullets thru the post from abroad. As far as i remember it is legal to order tees from abrod as long as you have authority to buy on your fac. Think you might have to then write them onto your fac but can't remember that much detail tbh.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
They're quite pricey, the Freyr bullets, about £1 each... http://www.munitions-freyr.fr/index.php?id_category=14&controller=category
Maybe an idea for a future project. Be the first person in the UK to use them!
Maybe an idea for a future project. Be the first person in the UK to use them!
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Here's the thread: http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co....-clarify-position?highlight=importing+bullets
It would appear that it's totally legal to order your bullets from abroad. Most people on the thread seem to interpret that as being the US, but I'd be more inclined to take advantage of the massive EU free trade zone! OK, plan for the longer term, after the basics are covered: become the first UK user of the DL1 bullets supplied bt Freyr. Just to be awkward.
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