Indefensible ! Police Tazer 93 yr Old Man.

[Rasputin]

I'm 100% sure I could disarm a senile, one legged ,wheel chair bound 93 year old with no problem. I would use a tactic perhaps unknown or not in the training given to the police. It was taught to us from child hood and its called, common sense.

It’s good that you feel so confident and I guess all things relative to the blade and their current state of mind could make it fairly easy equally could make it difficult. Even a wheelchair complicates matters just by it’s very nature. Mix that with potentially them holding a sharp knife to their own person one slip could sever an artery when trying to grab it from them if they had intent to harm themselves.

I still believe the police response to likely be deemed unacceptable but without knowing the full facts it’s hard to make an assessment.

 

[Rewulf]

Even a wheelchair complicates matters just by it’s very nature

Most of the time, I would agree.
Someone in a wheel chair could rear up, use it as a weapon or shield, but in this case, with one leg, and the frailty of his age?
He's hardly likely to start chasing you round the room is he, and he can't move the wheelchair {unless it's electric} while holding the knife?
Even if he was waving the knife around, it should be relatively easy to keep out of range, until he tires, or an opportunity arises to knock it out of his hand with the baton.
From the account, after a brief chat, probably where they screamed at him to drop the knife, they've pepper sprayed him, depending on the room size, this could have been a bad move...
Then they've set about him with the baton for some reason, rather than wait for the spray to effect him.
THEN they've tasered him too, as if the first 2 weren't enough!
It's a good job they weren't armed, otherwise they'd probably have put a couple of rounds centre mass to be sure.

No doubt I'll take some flak here, but how many of you would still be holding that knife, if I strapped you into a chair and pepper sprayed you?

 

[countrryboy]

No doubt I'll take some flak here, but how many of you would still be holding that knife, if I strapped you into a chair and pepper sprayed you?

The auld boy probably hadn't a clue wot was going on, if anything possibly the pepper spray/baton might of led him to believe he was being attacked?
There really is no point making up wot if's, i doubt it would be as easy as many think.

Or atleast not so easy without breaking his arm/wrist, if u then had used an unsanctioned technique to do it they would for for the high jump with no defence as were 'off script'.

As yet the reason for death is undeclared he could very well have died from covid in hospital or anything thing else completely unrelated,
Or if u went of script and broke his arm some blood clot or infection and u'd still be the bad guy.

Polis are in a bit of a lose lose situation, wot ever they do physically possibly a good chance of the old fella being hurt

 

[Tagoat]

Just to clarify that your idea of "trained policemen" may not be what the police consider "trained". Two days a year, one of which being half a day on first aid and the remaining day and a half (about 9 hours total) to cover every aspect of "staff safety" so handcuffing, CS Spray, baton use, take downs, policy and law changes etc is what they consider training.

My 9 year old son who does karate gets more training a year than police officers do.

Come on now!!! Really
At least one full day of the two training days is taken up by the "diversity" element!

 

[nun_hunter]

Come on now!!! Really
At least one full day of the two training days is taken up by the "diversity" element!

Unfortunately that's at least two whole days all by itself and that's not including all the mandatory online videos, quizzes assessments and courses that need to be done!

 

[potshotpat]

Not related to this thread, but remember watching police programs on TV. In England mateyboy gets pulled by a local Bobby because he's up to no good. PC ( asks) him to please do this and do that, mateyboy carries on being anus hole. Police Officer in Texas on his lonesome gets called to a mateyguy ( that's American) up to no good too, officer confronts mateyguy with the command move and I'll put a hole in you. Sorted.

 

[Lancaster]

We will see what transpires in the investigation, I guess that those most vociferous in their condemnation of the Police would also be howling if the headline had been "Police stand and watch as disabled 93yr old cut his own throat without taking any action".
Maybe the officers did not react appropriately in using spray and Taser, but no one commenting on here was there and knows the circumstances, the officers were, had to make quick decisions, and will be judged on the appropriateness of their actions.
Hopefully it will all come out in the wash in an independent investigation which should neither be a white wash or a witch hunt.
If the gentleman in question had not been White, "Rent a Mob" would almost certainly would have already been on the streets.

 

[Jagare]

Not related to this thread, but remember watching police programs on TV. In England mateyboy gets pulled by a local Bobby because he's up to no good. PC ( asks) him to please do this and do that, mateyboy carries on being anus hole. Police Officer in Texas on his lonesome gets called to a mateyguy ( that's American) up to no good too, officer confronts mateyguy with the command move and I'll put a hole in you. Sorted.

Look at the Karen Garner case on you tube. Those American police really know how to deal with old people with Dementia. Or the elderly Indian Gentleman who was visiting his son and just out for a stroll. Perhaps we've imported some of their training on how to deal with the old and infirm.

 

[Roebuck]

Whatever anyone says its disgraceful!A 93 year old amputee dementia patient, Pepper Sprayed, batoned and tasered !Lord what next?The Police service is in crisis,Murderers,paedophiles,rapists and fraudsters etc etc!The mind boggles!!

 

[Bowland blades]

I'm a retired Community Psychiatric Nurse who specialised in dementia as well as a former Special Constable. I was horrified at the account of what happened. Disgusted, not only with the police officers involved but with the so called "Care Home" who obviously employ untrained care staff. The police officers (qty 2) allegedly used pepper spray or similar, a Taser and a batton to disarm this 93 year old male. The BBC web site story said the man, who has dementia, was in a wheel chair, has one leg and was alone in his room with a kitchen knife. If the allegations turn out to be as stated on the BBC web site then there is no doubt in my mind that the police officers should be dismissed and the care home investigated by the CQC.

Gosh! actually brings a tear to my eye , those officers show all that is wrong with the police today ! worst case scenario is lock him in the kitchen till he falls asleep or forgets what he was doing with the knife

 

[Pete1774]

Gosh! actually brings a tear to my eye , those officers show all that is wrong with the police today ! worst case scenario is lock him in the kitchen till he falls asleep or forgets what he was doing with the knife

Exactly!

 

[Confidis]

Local swat in Wiltshire slot drunks in vests in the street brandishing what was very obviously a BSA meteor.177.
A riot shield and a rolled up newspaper would have been more appropriate.

 

[topscots1]

Local swat in Wiltshire slot drunks in vests in the street brandishing what was very obviously a BSA meteor.177.
A riot shield and a rolled up newspaper would have been more appropriate.

you mean the guy that got shot brandishing a rifle at police at 2AM, outside a house party where an altercation had taken place. Police were called to a report of a man with a gun.

SWAT is also not a U.K. thing.

You do realise that police are not firearms experts, would you be willing to place your life on it that it was a BSA meteor, with a fraction of a second sighting as it’s pointed at you ? There is a reason firearms are described as long barreled or short barrelled, quite simply the majority of people would not be able to identify a particular firearm, certainly not with limited visibility , at night in the possession of someone intending to do violence. One person to blame in the incident you are talking about, and that’s the idiot waving an air rifle at police at 2 in the morning.

 

[Confidis]

Yes dear

 

[Fadcode]

I was being a tad sarcastic, but maybe it was a stiletto with a 10” blade and he was threatening to self harm by amputating his other leg.

Well if it was that, they should have arrested him, as when he went to court he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on, which would have been a feather in the Police's cap as they would have got a conviction.

 

[Lancaster]

Local swat in Wiltshire slot drunks in vests in the street brandishing what was very obviously a BSA meteor.177.
A riot shield and a rolled up newspaper would have been more appropriate.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, waving a weapon about when ****ed isn't that bright is it?

 

[Jagare]

Local swat in Wiltshire slot drunks in vests in the street brandishing what was very obviously a BSA meteor.177.
A riot shield and a rolled up newspaper would have been more appropriate.

That's called going for a Darwin award. Often ends up with a bad outcome.
Not the same as a one legged man with Dementia.

 

[Dunwaters]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, waving a weapon about when ****ed isn't that bright is it?

Being dumber than a rock isn’t actually a crime and waving what may or may not be “a weapon” about need not necessarily result in a death sentence, the police response should be proportionate and I think that’s the problem most of us are having with the incident involving the elderly man.
I can see, in extreme circumstances, where a single unsupported copper may have felt it necessary to resort to forcibly grabbing, tasering, or a smack of a baton. But not all 3.
I can’t think of any scenario where 2 presumably able bodied coppers would have been justified in wading in with that level of violence on a wheelchair bound 93 year old dementia patient. It looks very much as if having decided to resolve the issue forcibly, the level of violence meted out escalated way beyond what any reasonable person would consider to be acceptable.
However the investigation and court case goes, its not exactly the image that ANY police force would want to foster.

 

[Kalahari]

While we are here perhaps those apologists for the police here will defend Cressida Dick for acting illegally in the Daniel Morgan case and the recent expose of the Met for carrying out strip searches on children without the legally required responsible adult present.

Really it is time for honest policeman to stand up and be counted and push back to a decent standard of policing rather than trotting out the same series of excuses out of a misguided sense of loyalty.

David.

 

[Hornet 6]

Can we not just strap the two failure officers to wheel chairs, and use them for target practise, non lethal rounds only, see how they like it

SWAT is also not a U.K. thing.

But the idiots in the dirty black polo shirts & combats think it is.

I am ashamed of the modern day police force, to the point I now believe that the police force I grew up respecting, has gone forever, and has been replaced by the paramilitary clowns we now have, who want to throw their weight about, make peoples, lives a misery, and worst of all are now not even bothering to respond to the public unless someone has half killed them, theft, crimes of violence etc seems no longer to be part of their agenda, or of any interest.

Neil.