Ineos Grenadier

[Heym SR20]

What’s everybody’s thoughts on the Grenadier.

I like it - looks like a good strong, reasonably simple car that should be good both on and off road and able to haul / carry a good load. An up to date Landcruiser 70 / 100 series, G wagen, old Landrover, Pinzgauer grand child (But the intermediate generations not really visible).

No surprise that its probably going to be built in Europe given that just about all its component parts are European - and should mean build quality will be good.

And who will buy it? Most of the 4x4 market seems to have gone to pickups (Ranger, DMax, Hilux, Amarock) or 4x4 Vans such as the Mercedes Sprinter, Iveco etc.

 

[kenbro]

What’s everybody’s thoughts on the Grenadier.

I like it - looks like a good strong, reasonably simple car that should be good both on and off road and able to haul / carry a good load. An up to date Landcruiser 70 / 100 series, G wagen, old Landrover, Pinzgauer grand child (But the intermediate generations not really visible).

No surprise that its probably going to be built in Europe given that just about all its component parts are European - and should mean build quality will be good.

And who will buy it? Most of the 4x4 market seems to have gone to pickups (Ranger, DMax, Hilux, Amarock) or 4x4 Vans such as the Mercedes Sprinter, Iveco etc.

The new Chelsea Tractor?
Ken.

 

[kenbro]

The new Chelsea Tractor?
Ken.

Ps. Received their email yesterday re. the BMW straight 6 engines with auto trans.

 

[starr shot]

May be it will bring the second hand landrover market back down to a sensible level.

 

[timbrayford]

I'm not so sure that this going to be a working vehicle. I can quite understand Ineos using a top of the range station wagon as their concept vehicle but what I would like to see is a SWB commercial variant priced to compete with the jap p/u s that wiped the floor with the original landrover before it morphed into a big boy's toy. Over to you George Ratcliffe, lets see a baseline no frills model complete with a tow bar as standard priced at £ 20k- £ 25K.

 

[SAUER20222250]

I taught a young 15yo to Spey cast many moons ago and he is now head of Ineos upstream exploration and delivery.... i am calling in a favour.

 

[Apthorpe]

Looks good but......too expensive and....I'm surprised anyone wants to get into starting such a process without it being electric. They've only got a 14 year window where it's legal to sell and apparently don't have a factory ready. I'd be surprised if it was ready to start mass deliveries inside two years, and I'll be surprised if BMW will be able to supply 3 litre diesel engines to them in, say, 8 years' time. I don't see how it can be worth doing.

My guess is it will never enter mass production.

 

[SAUER20222250]

....you underestimate the power of Ratcliffe.

 

[takbok]

I think that the Grenadier is a great idea and I hope that it's a real success. Everyone else is making petrol and diesel cars still so I think it's a great choice. They can always bring out an electric version in 10 years. Electric cars are a waste of time at the moment IMO.

Unfortunately I think that they've put very little effort into the body design and it looks very ugly though, which would be fine if it was going to be cheap but it won't be.

 

[zambezi]

I think that they've put very little effort into the body design and it looks very ugly though, which would be fine if it was going to be cheap but it won't be.

It is not pretty, but it does look functional. There is one design echo brought over from the landrover styling cues that is, IMO, ill-considered: The round tail light cluster sits proud of the bodywork and is going to get clattered by whatever is loaded into the back of the Grenadier. And so, like landies, you will have to buy and fit a "chip-basket" protective shroud to prevent covering your boots in red plastic shards.

But, unlike the diminutive pimple light on landies, the INEOS light cluster is so large that I suspect that an actual chip basket could be deployed. On the upside, that should shave some cost off the inevitable aftermarket customisation budget.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

A mild hybrid maybe in the future?
A 3 litre diesel seems to me to be too large an engine size as there is HP enough to be gained from smaller units where road tax is less plus there are areas of the world where diesel is now regarded like pedo"s are. Germany the sale of diesels is dropping like a stone so BMW must have done a INEOS a good deal on the engines.

 

[tikka_madras]

I’m the absolute natural customer for this but if it’s built in Europe I probably won’t buy it. This isn’t out of some misguided hatred of all things European, it’s just that the only thing that would make me buy it instead of a much cheaper, prettier or more sensible alternative is the image. The same one the defender had - a big, British, rough-round-the-edges (and in the defender’s case rough-through-the-middle too) lifestyle vehicle. Plus a residual attachment to my country, despite the efforts of the globalists and ****ty leftists who seem to run it, that I’ll not make a sensible comparison with better cars if it’s built here.

I know these reasons are a bit pathetic, but it’s my money and I’ll spend it how I like.

 

[Ronin]

Quite like the utility looks (GWagon/ defender hybrid)

Would be good if it performed off road as well as those and offered reliability along Toyota / earlier Isuzu lines (thinking 3.0 trooper)

At 15 k lower asking price ,,,,,

 

[Apthorpe]

....you underestimate the power of Ratcliffe.

Possibly true, but I overestimated the power of Dyson with a project where they actually had relevant experience.
And again, I think the potential market is evaporating fast.

 

[Apthorpe]

I think that the Grenadier is a great idea and I hope that it's a real success. Everyone else is making petrol and diesel cars still so I think it's a great choice. They can always bring out an electric version in 10 years. Electric cars are a waste of time at the moment IMO.

Unfortunately I think that they've put very little effort into the body design and it looks very ugly though, which would be fine if it was going to be cheap but it won't be.

Everyone else is making petrol and diesel cars now, but very few are developing new petrol or diesel designs any more. In 10 years they could bring out an electric design, which would need to be very different, but they'd need to start work on it very soon. Which just adds to the impression that the Grenadier is a white elephant.

I have misgivings about electric cars at the moment too, but that doesn't alter the fact that diesel designs have had their day and it will be literally illegal to sell them before long. Manufacturers can get round many difficult problems, but not that one.

 

[takbok]

Everyone else is making petrol and diesel cars now, but very few are developing new petrol or diesel designs any more. In 10 years they could bring out an electric design, which would need to be very different, but they'd need to start work on it very soon. Which just adds to the impression that the Grenadier is a white elephant.

I have misgivings about electric cars at the moment too, but that doesn't alter the fact that diesel designs have had their day and it will be literally illegal to sell them before long. Manufacturers can get round many difficult problems, but not that one.

But Grenadier isn't developing the engines, they're using proven, up to date beemer ones. There's a petrol option too but why limit it to petrol when all the competition still use diesel.

A 10 year model life for this new one will be great. I've no doubt that they're already thinking about electric options for the future.

 

[takbok]

Quite like the utility looks (GWagon/ defender hybrid)

Would be good if it performed off road as well as those and offered reliability along Toyota / earlier Isuzu lines (thinking 3.0 trooper)

At 15 k lower asking price ,,,,,

Trooper is a worthy benchmark.

 

[8x57]

But Grenadier isn't developing the engines, they're using proven, up to date beemer ones. There's a petrol option too but why limit it to petrol when all the competition still use diesel.

A 10 year model life for this new one will be great. I've no doubt that they're already thinking about electric options for the future.

They need to be thinking beyond that, hydrogen is apparently the future.

One area of the off road market that is often overlooked by manufacturers is the small to medium size vehicle, something just slightly larger than a Suzuki Jimny would go down well with me.

 

[Mick Miller]

No, hydrogen isn't the future, nor is EV for anything other than urban transport (think runs to the shops or around town), EV also relies on very questionable environmentally damaging supply chains, not to mention human rights abuses and the use of child slave labour, if you want to sign up to companies that accept that simply to bring clean air to your rich, privileged western city then hang your head in shame.

The Dark Side of Electric Cars: Exploitative Labor Practices

The industry must not ignore human rights for the sake of green innovation

time.com

Carbon capture is already prototyped, tested, facilities built with nothing other than already available off-the-shelf components. No special components necessary. The only thing it has to have is a readily available source of green energy to power it (to begin with) so it has to be close to wind, water or solar energy plants. This is the first step, capturing the excess co2 in our atmosphere and storing it, in pellet form, underground.

Once there is enough resource then stage two commences; the conversion of stored co2 into clean, carbon-neutral fuels that are suitable for any existing engine type. Clean bio diesel, aviation fuel, heating oil, petroleum can be manufactured from the co2 pellets, all it releases is co2, no soot, no nasties, nothing to fear. No need to dig up masses of rare earth elements and destroy swathes of otherwise pristine land. Finally, this is the icing on the cake for carbon capture, it is estimated that a single plant, 10km square, has the capacity to extract and store the same amount of co2 annually that the entire Amazon rainforest can.

It's already being rolled out:

UK's biggest carbon capture project is step-change on emissions

Tata-owned Cheshire plant to turn 40,000 tonnes of CO2 a year into useful products

www.theguardian.com

Bill Gates is backing a plan to turn CO2 into fuel

The tech has been around for some time, but combined and scaled up it could help in the fight against global warming and provide a new source of fuel.

www.weforum.org

National Geographic

Explore National Geographic. A world leader in geography, cartography and exploration.

www.nationalgeographic.co.uk

Carbon Engineering - Taking CO2 Right Out Of The Air To Make Gasoline

Extracting CO2 from air is the best way to reverse global warming without resorting to expensive technologies, convoluted tax schemes or preventing billions from getting sufficient energy. If you then make gasoline from it, then you’d kill two birds with one stone. That stone is Carbon Engineering.

www.forbes.com

Direct Air Capture of CO2 | Home

Learn about our groundbreaking carbon removal technology that can be used to create large-scale carbon removal from the atmosphere.

carbonengineering.com

So don't worry about your diesel motor just yet.

 

[VSS]

The agriculture sector may be wooed over to this. Most former defender driving farmers now have pickups, with Mitsubishi being the most common. However, Mitsubishi are pulling out of the UK market.