John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Thats a yes from me.
****ing bull types of breeds
- Thread starter John Gryphon
- Start date
At the VCAT hearing your daughter will need to prove/have corroborating/supporting evidence of the incident. Her word/version is not enough for the VCAT person to award damages. All areas of doubt/contest have to be eliminated.
1 - She will need a statement from the treating vet that Bellas injuries were caused by a dog attack.
2 - She will need to produce the bills from the Vet.
3 - She will need to have attend the hearing with her at least one of those who helped her and can identify the dog who attacked Bella.
4 - The same person/s can also identify the woman at the hearing is the same woman who is the owner of the attacking dog.
5 - The same person/s can support your daughters version of events and that Bella was on a lead and that the attacking dog was not on a lead...aka it was out of control.
1 - She will need a statement from the treating vet that Bellas injuries were caused by a dog attack.
2 - She will need to produce the bills from the Vet.
3 - She will need to have attend the hearing with her at least one of those who helped her and can identify the dog who attacked Bella.
4 - The same person/s can also identify the woman at the hearing is the same woman who is the owner of the attacking dog.
5 - The same person/s can support your daughters version of events and that Bella was on a lead and that the attacking dog was not on a lead...aka it was out of control.
Jamsie
Well-Known Member
That's a bit on the harsh side.
As an owner of a staffy myself, may I suggest that you direct your anger at the owners who allow their out of control animals to range freely, rather than at the dog itself. Directing your ire at an entire breed is both unhelpful and unfair. My lad has only been involved in one violent encounter with another dog. He was on the lead and the other animal (German Shepherd) was running free and out of control, with it previously having attacked another dog only minutes earlier.
The owner of the Shepherd (a young woman), was too busy on her phone to take any notice of her dog's activities and there was zero attempt at any control despite my shouting at her to get it on a lead. Needless to say, the encounter did not go well for the Shepherd and the result was a hefty vet's bill for the owner. Wading in to separate a mature staffy in full-on werewolf mode and a large German Shepherd is NOT my idea of a good day out and not something I wish to replicate anytime soon.
To be clear, I have no issue with my dog defending himself against any unprovoked attacks, especially when he is on a lead. Despite the actions and sheer aggression shown during this incident, I have no desire to call for the destruction of the animal concerned or for the extinction of the breed itself. Training, control and owner accountability is what matters. Unfortunately, these are words which mean very little within the 'travelling community'. THAT ... clearly needs to change.
I hope that the lurcher recovers well and the owners of the dogs involved are taken to task.
Jamsie
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Pedigreed Whippet,no lurcher.
The attack was by (apparently) bull breed Staffies. Pit bull`s/Staffy`s are crossed so as to get out of the PB ban here. Once PB blood is introduced into another dog breed the PB becomes dominant in most cases and corrupts the original with insanity.
I've absolutely nothing against Staffies. It's the so-called 'Bully-x' breeds I take against
Contrast that with the old bull terrier sometimes seen following his equally ancient owner around a crowded market here in the south, stopping for the regulars to give him a treat or a pet........
No lead necessary because he and his owner both know what they're doing.
D.
No lead necessary because he and his owner both know what they're doing.
D.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Yes
TheOldTool
Well-Known Member
@Quixote.... I am sorry, but I am sure you would not apply that logic and call for them all to be exterminated in similar situations, for example the attacker was a young black / Albanian or whatever man ( Who for whatever reason, are responsible for hugely significantly more stabbings, robberies and murders per capita than other groups) ....So why tar hundreds of thousands of perfectly well behaved, loved and trained dogs and several breeds with the same brush?
When I was young, it was Alsations and Rottweilers that were the boogeymen of dog attacks, a lot of this is whipped up by tabloid journalism sensationalist articles and there are many examples of fatal attacks by other breeds. These breeds just happen to do more damage as they are bigger and stronger.....You would not ban all big strong men from being loose on the streets would you? Men do commit most murders and attacks.......?
Seeing as this is a shooting forum, what you are saying is no different to the argument used by people who want all guns banned.....
Again, the issue is with the irresponsible owners. Not the dog. A dog should never be off the lead if there is any chance of it coming into contact with other people and dogs. That is simply common snese and courtesy, sadly lacking in a lot of the population, who, as I have said should not be allowed to breed, let alone keep a pet....
When I was young, it was Alsations and Rottweilers that were the boogeymen of dog attacks, a lot of this is whipped up by tabloid journalism sensationalist articles and there are many examples of fatal attacks by other breeds. These breeds just happen to do more damage as they are bigger and stronger.....You would not ban all big strong men from being loose on the streets would you? Men do commit most murders and attacks.......?
Seeing as this is a shooting forum, what you are saying is no different to the argument used by people who want all guns banned.....
Again, the issue is with the irresponsible owners. Not the dog. A dog should never be off the lead if there is any chance of it coming into contact with other people and dogs. That is simply common snese and courtesy, sadly lacking in a lot of the population, who, as I have said should not be allowed to breed, let alone keep a pet....
Completely disagree I'm afraid. My own cousin has a couple of these dogs, and swears they're the softest things imaginable. I'm sure they are. Until they're not. These breeds are in no way suitable as family pets, and given that the purpose for which they were originally bred is now illegal there exists no place for the breed in modern society.
In addition, the distinction between Alsatians, Rotweillers, and similar breeds is that they were bred as service dogs, not fighting dogs. Just because a breed has been kept as a pet won't dilute the breeds' natural instinctiveness to latent violence, and when that instinct is triggered nothing will turn it off.
And your comparison of my argument to guns, or Albanians is pretty much moot given that you then in on to express the view that the majority of the population shouldn't be allowed to breed.
We'll have to agree to disagree if that's alright with you
World of difference between the English Bull Terrier and pitbull-types though. And again, it comes down to what they were originally bred for
Jamsie
Well-Known Member
Just for clarity, ALL staffies are bull breed. The clue is in the name i.e. Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
Jamsie
TheOldTool
Well-Known Member
English Bull terriers and Staffys were both bred and used extensively for fighting. Sorry but you are wrong, but I respect your right to hold that opinion
You can train ANY dog to be aggresive and fight....FACT
And you did not address any of my analogies. It's like wanting all big strong black people locked up or exterminated, just because you read that there were several attacks by them.....you would not think that so why are dogs different?
Guns are dangerous and can and do kill, despite all legislation. But I would never advocate for them being banned.....would you? Why are dogs different?
People kill each other with cars every day.....would you ban them?
If you are going to make a statement like that, at least debate it properly .......and back it up with a coherent and factually correct argument, instead of a knee jerk opinion....
You can train ANY dog to be aggresive and fight....FACT
And you did not address any of my analogies. It's like wanting all big strong black people locked up or exterminated, just because you read that there were several attacks by them.....you would not think that so why are dogs different?
Guns are dangerous and can and do kill, despite all legislation. But I would never advocate for them being banned.....would you? Why are dogs different?
People kill each other with cars every day.....would you ban them?
If you are going to make a statement like that, at least debate it properly .......and back it up with a coherent and factually correct argument, instead of a knee jerk opinion....
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TheOldTool
Well-Known Member
Interestingly, Dogs killed around 500 people in the USA between 2005 and 2019 and cows killed well over 300........should we ban cows?
Both breeds were extensively refined to take the fighting instinct out of them following the Victorian ban (1835?), so have had over 180 years of selective breeding to mitigate that original requirement for the breed.
As for your analogies? I didn't respond as they're quite frankly ludicrous.
Why 'strong black people'? Why not just 'strong people'? Does merely being black insinuate a propensity to violence?
And as to your next argument? Guns don't kill people. People kill people. I could theoretically leave a loaded rifle propped against a wall for a month. And it would do nothing by itself
Cars? Cars being driven safely, responsibly, and within the limitations of the law cause nobody any harm.
Pitbull types have a latent ferocity and violence that supporters of the breed simply blind themselves to, as 'their' dog would never do such a thing. Until they do.
My labrador was a gentle and loving dog, but if triggered, even she could potentially be capable of serious injury. The difference is, labradors were never bred to have any form of violence as part of the breed characteristic. Pitbull types were.
As I said, we need to agree to disagree. I will never support this breed as being suitable to be owned by any member of the public. And I'm afraid I'd go as far as to question the motives of anyone who wishes to own one
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
TheOldTool
Well-Known Member
Dogs, owned safely, responsibly and within the limitations of the law cause nobody any harm.
I used Black people as an analogy as ( as I clearly stated in my OP but you seemed to miss) per capita, they carry out nearly five times as much violent crime in this country. Yet we do not have race specific legislation. So why with dogs. Nothing to do with me being racist as you seem to imply with your emoji.....
Please tell me how you remove the fighting instinct by selective breeding?
I have owned Bull breeds all my life and my motive is that they are beautiful, loyal, loving family pets in the right hands.
Here is my insane murderous American bulldog, just waiting to rip my sons face off
I guess its like politics, there is no middle ground
I used Black people as an analogy as ( as I clearly stated in my OP but you seemed to miss) per capita, they carry out nearly five times as much violent crime in this country. Yet we do not have race specific legislation. So why with dogs. Nothing to do with me being racist as you seem to imply with your emoji.....
Please tell me how you remove the fighting instinct by selective breeding?
I have owned Bull breeds all my life and my motive is that they are beautiful, loyal, loving family pets in the right hands.
Here is my insane murderous American bulldog, just waiting to rip my sons face off
I guess its like politics, there is no middle ground
Attachments
I fear so, my friend. I fear so. Sometimes it's like educating pork
However, my wish to see an end to the breed in the UK will come into fact once the current generations of the breed pass.
TheOldTool
Well-Known Member
He is talking about ALL bull breeds, rather than just the APBT
Aaaaand....there you go, when you run out of arguments, start insulting the other person.....nice.
I will leave it there.
paulst
Well-Known Member
I wonder why all dogs in public aren’t required to wear muzzles. There could be exemptions for working dogs whilst working etc. A young lady near me walks two dogs which are muzzled when out, they are also walked on the lead. This is not to prevent attack but to stop them eating anything unsavoury, they are gentle dogs. They seem happy enough. My lab was once attacked by a dog wearing a muzzle. No harm done, my lab just looked bemused. I have no personal experience of muzzling a dog so my thoughts are very much just thrown out there. This of course would only work on law abiding dogs 
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