Is .243 big enough???

[I. Farticus]

Forgive me, but I just don't get the reasoning behind going with the smallest calibre permitted with so many larger calibres available...

I must have smaller cahoonas than some of you (or consider myself to be a sh*t shot) as I went 6.5x55 to give me more clout than the .243 that I was using at the time. Surely it's about showing some respect for the quarry, and if a calibre is marginal (ie at the bottom end of what's legal), why not go a bit bigger???

Just my opinion

 

[EMcC]

Surely it's about showing some respect for the quarry, and if a calibre is marginal (ie at the bottom end of what's legal), why not go a bit bigger??? Just my opinion

If an animal is shot and dies, I have shot many hundreds over the years using a .243, can you explain to me, in your opinion, sorry if I am thick, it may be an age thing, but how does the animal or the shooter know if the calibre being used is 'marginal' or whether the Deer shot, died humanely or was just pretending.
I think the .243 hadn't been on the market long when I got my first one. It was a Parker Hale 1200 Safari and was all the rage back in the late '60's
It certainly worked for me and saw no reason to change until I took up shooting slightly larger Quarry abroad in later years.
Thanks.

 

[I. Farticus]

Ok, so I expected a couple of sarcastic responses, and you're up first...

Evidently you are a far better shot than I, so I decided to give myself a better chance and go bigger than the lowest permitted calibre. I can't have explained myself properly, so I'll take that one on the chin. Don't know if it's an age thing, as I might be older than you!

There is choice, which is a good thing, and each to their own. You are happy with .243, I wasn't.

Cheers

 

[Hales Smut]

What about a 243 with 100 grain Nosler Partitions or 80/85 grain Barnes TTSX ? Can it fight in a heavier class with these bullets ?

 

[Sharpie]

Police guidance on firearms licensing has been updated in the latest (November 2013) edition.

13.31 Suitable calibres for shooting deer range from the .243 to .45-70. The .243 is legal for all species of deer found in the UK, however, for the larger species (Red, Sika & Fallow) .270 and larger calibres are generally more suitable.

I agree. And it is now official guidance, so the days of insisting on .243 as a "starter" deer rifle should be over. In fact if the FEO is doing their job properly they ought to be suggesting a larger calibre than .243 if they know that it is intended to be used on "the larger species".

I recommend everyone study the latest guidance, a lot has changed, mostly for the better.

E.g. consider the "any other lawful quarry" condition, which is now to be the default:

13.9 A certificate holder may shoot any quarry that is lawful (where they are authorised to shoot). Whilst guidance is provided, it is the responsibility of the shooter and the shooting community to know what calibre is suitable for which quarry, and when certain quarry is lawful (including the need to obtain or rely upon a licence from the relevant licensing authority to permit the shooting of protected species). Once initial “good reason” has been established for the possession of a firearm, there is no requirement for “good reason” to be demonstrated for additional quarry species or amendments providing the firearms are not underpowered for the species (see also paragraph 13.17). A cartridge should be capable of achieving a humane kill, and it is the responsibility of the shooter to ensure that any excess energy will be absorbed by the backstop. The “any other lawful quarry” condition (which also covers protected species that the certificate holder is licensed to shoot) should be applied. If an applicant is suitable to hold a firearm certificate and is deemed safe to do so, there is no requirement to restrict the quarry they shoot by the use of conditions.

 

[Crosshair243]

From the 6mmbr.com website

"If you could have just one rifle to slay varmints, hunt white-tails, shoot paper at long range, and duel in tactical matches, it would be hard to beat the .243 Winchester. This versatile "little brother" of the .308 Winchester is a true triple-threat as a match cartridge, varmint cartridge, and game cartridge. With 115gr DTAC bullets, a .243 rivals a 6.5-284 ballistically out to 1000 yards. Shooting 80-100 grain hunting bullets, a .243 will anchor a buck with authority. Driving the light 55-75 grain pills, the .243 provides the flat trajectory and high impact energy varminters love. As a tactical round, the .243 is one of the best, offering excellent ballistics, moderate recoil, and stone-reliable feeding from a detachable magazine. "

Says it all really.


Why are (internet?) stalkers so condescending. It's legal (in most cases), it works (for most users) and it's got a lot going for it- if you don't like it, don't use it but that doesn't mean its not suitable for someone else.
Are we all so insecure about our own caliber choices (and considerable investments?) that we have to defend them blindly until death?

 

[straightbetweentheeyes]

There is a nice sako 85 in 25-06 for sale in classifieds....

 

[bogtrotter]

From the 6mmbr.com website

"If you could have just one rifle to slay varmints, hunt white-tails, shoot paper at long range, and duel in tactical matches, it would be hard to beat the .243 Winchester. This versatile "little brother" of the .308 Winchester is a true triple-threat as a match cartridge, varmint cartridge, and game cartridge. With 115gr DTAC bullets, a .243 rivals a 6.5-284 ballistically out to 1000 yards. Shooting 80-100 grain hunting bullets, a .243 will anchor a buck with authority. Driving the light 55-75 grain pills, the .243 provides the flat trajectory and high impact energy varminters love. As a tactical round, the .243 is one of the best, offering excellent ballistics, moderate recoil, and stone-reliable feeding from a detachable magazine. "

Says it all really.


Why are (internet?) stalkers so condescending. It's legal (in most cases), it works (for most users) and it's got a lot going for it- if you don't like it, don't use it but that doesn't mean its not suitable for someone else.
Are we all so insecure about our own caliber choices (and considerable investments?) that we have to defend them blindly until death?

Thank you my sentiments exactly

 

[bogtrotter]

And quote from the Speer reloading manual.

The .243 is nothing more than the .308 Winchester necked down to take a .243" bullet it is reallyan excellent long range varmint caliber. In windy conditionsm it is far superior to any .22 centerfire, it likewise is an excellent choice for DEER or Antelope.
The light recoil even with the heavier bullets is appreciated by ladies and youngsters. It has been a popular caliber since soon afte introduction.Rifles and ammunition for this cartridgeare made by every major arms and ammunition manufacturer in the world today. it is the smallest caliber suitable for BIG GAME but is to light for animals such as Elk.

UNQUOTE To each his own if you don't like it don't use it, if you do carry on its legal for all deer species with the correct bullet weight.

 

[EMcC]

I don't think this thread is ever going to come to any definite conclusion.
All I will say, with some authority gained over more than fifty years experience of shooting various species of Deer, is that the .243 was the most popular calibre doing a very good job before more people got into stalking and more calibres appeared on the market.
Dead is dead -not marginally dead.
An animal that falls to shot is dead but whether it was a humane shot or not will only be known by the animal and if it is dead cannot give you the answer

 

[I. Farticus]

I don't think this thread is ever going to come to any definite conclusion.
All I will say, with some authority gained over more than fifty years experience of shooting various species of Deer, is that the .243 was the most popular calibre doing a very good job before more people got into stalking and more calibres appeared on the market.
Dead is dead -not marginally dead.
An animal that falls to shot is dead but whether it was a humane shot or not will only be known by the animal and if it is dead cannot give you the answer

Nothing to disagree with there

Cheers
iain

 

[howa243]

Forgive me, but I just don't get the reasoning behind going with the smallest calibre permitted with so many larger calibres available...

I must have smaller cahoonas than some of you (or consider myself to be a sh*t shot) as I went 6.5x55 to give me more clout than the .243 that I was using at the time. Surely it's about showing some respect for the quarry, and if a calibre is marginal (ie at the bottom end of what's legal), why not go a bit bigger???

Just my opinion

Fair point, but maybe the OP wants a large range of manufacturers ammunition available. .243 does that.

 

[Glen of Imaal]

Agree with EMcC

 

[Paul at Fechan]

What about a 243 with 100 grain Nosler Partitions or 80/85 grain Barnes TTSX ? Can it fight in a heavier class with these bullets ?

what like .375 h&h and 300gr?

 

[Paul at Fechan]

- .243 will kill small deer efficiently and large deer well with good shots

- .243 is the MINIMUM and TOP recommendation by a FLO's for an all deer legal rifle which makes perfect sense from a control point of view as it only just makes the minimum legal energy throughout the UK.

- With .243's I have had guests shoot a few reds and sika well that took a lot longer to drop that I personally felt was respectful and appropriate. Some became problems deer in the trees that either needed a dog or became lost. Some standing deer needed second shots even though the first was good.

- Other calibre options that are available can deliver TWICE the energy of the .243 to target animal and over 100 grains of physical bullet more

- Choice and preference can only be dictated by the individual

 

[Sikaside]

Will this ever end, probably not Im thinking! so heres my two penneth!
When I first started rifle shooting many years ago I had a Remington 222 that I used for just fox control, it was super accurate and I had the upmost confidence in it.

I have shot Roe with the 222 north of the border and never found it wanting, but then I gained some deer permissions close to home so I needed a deer legal calibre rifle so I applied for a 243 and 308, I bought a second hand Tikka M55 308 that was a great tool albeit a little heavy but it was super accurate and it did the job.

I then bought a new Sako 75 when they were first brought out and to be honest I have never looked back, since then I have owned four 243 all Sako 75s but one that was a 85 and that went back sharpish, but thats another story, two of them I shot out and the other I still own to this day and is the rifle I use all of the time.

I do own another centrefire rifle a 7.08 that is also super accurate but to be honest it doesnt see the light of day very often and is always there as a back up.

What I am getting at is its not the calibre you shoot its having the confidence in your set up and knowing its capabilities, just because you have a big calibre doesnt mean you dont need to be accurate, you do, put time into your set up know where it is shooting at ranges you feel comfortable shooting at.

We all have our favorite calibres does it matter if you dont like the 243 or the 308 or the 270, there is always someone that will argue that the calibre they shoot is the best for what ever reason, just remember that our armed forces use a 223 to shoot at humans, when we use to use 308/7.62! maybe theres and argument to start there?

 

[Paul at Fechan]

carry more ammo for the same weight... nothing to do with lethality

 

[howa243]

just remember that our armed forces use a 223 to shoot at humans, when we use to use 308/7.62! maybe theres and argument to start there?

You could get grief for that. I said much the same thing a few years back and got covered with phlegm. I also have Sako 75 in .243 and agree that it is a keeper.

 

[EMcC]

carry more ammo for the same weight...

That was only one of the advantages mentioned as an after thought.

 

[berg]

- .243 will kill small deer efficiently and large deer well with good shots

- .243 is the MINIMUM and TOP recommendation by a FLO's for an all deer legal rifle which makes perfect sense from a control point of view as it only just makes the minimum legal energy throughout the UK.

- With .243's I have had guests shoot a few reds and sika well that took a lot longer to drop that I personally felt was respectful and appropriate. Some became problems deer in the trees that either needed a dog or became lost. Some standing deer needed second shots even though the first was good.

- Other calibre options that are available can deliver TWICE the energy of the .243 to target animal and over 100 grains of physical bullet more

- Choice and preference can only be dictated by the individual

I think you will find that its the guests bad shooting not the rifle ,there has been so much trouble over guests shooting are way, fallow having legs blown off, farmers having to go and shoot badly shot deer not saying all paid shoots are like that but just the fact they are paying means they probably don't shoot that much and when faced with the buck off a life time they cant take a good shot buck fever I think they call it .I was just told the other day by a friend that some one had gone on a red stag cull on a estate in suffolk he turn up with a silly big cal so they ask him to do a shooting test at 100yrd his best group was 6inch and so he was told he would have to use a estate rifle or not shoot at all it turn s out he got a 243 but they still made him take the test again, he still could not put a good group in when the guide watch him closely they saw that he was flinching as he pulled the trigger it took quite a few shoots before they were happy for him to go out ,so having a big rifle is fine but if you cant shoot it because you are scared off it there's no point in having it at all .much more likely that someone like that is going to wound a animal then kill it ,he probably got on just fine with the 243 and is wondering why he brought a cannon he cant shoot??