Is there an ‘ideal’ deer caliber?

high BC bullets minimising effects of wind and drop
Additional benefit of high BC is, that terminal velocity difference at different distances is minimised. So basically you get as similar effect as possible. Of course there might not (yet) be an optimal bullet on the market.
 
I know this topic has been done to death but here goes…. The biggest change in the last few years has been the amount of long slippery sexy high bc bullets about these days. Essential these are better than the old bullets for wind drift which is great out at distance 300m plus. These bullets required high twist rate barrels and modern cartridges usually accommodate this, 1:8 or so. Some older cartridges also have a good twist usually like the 6.5x55 which always shot long for calibre bullets. Everyone loves a 270 I get that but it has a slow twist rate and consequently nobody makes high bc bullets in that calibre so it’s slightly behind the curve. It’s probably true, for the weight, 6.5-7mm have the highest bc of most normal cartridges so many shoot that diameter.
All of this doesn’t matter at all at 200m but out there a bit it really does. My mate was giving 6” wind drift in a .308 at 300m and I was giving 2” in my 6.5x55 that’s a big difference or at least significant for deer dispatch.
 
Perhaps a different perspective, with the (almost) inevitable move to lead free.

While the tendency in lead bullets has been to move to long and heavy, which generally means modern cartridges, it remains the case that copper bullets usually want to be driven fast. I don’t necessarily mean really fast, but the slow and heavy mantra that’s caught on for long range lead is likely to see very poor bullet performance.

Some of the older high velocity cartridges lend themselves well to lighter copper bullets, think 243, 25-06,, 270 etc.
 
Perhaps a different perspective, with the (almost) inevitable move to lead free.

While the tendency in lead bullets has been to move to long and heavy, which generally means modern cartridges, it remains the case that copper bullets usually want to be driven fast. I don’t necessarily mean really fast, but the slow and heavy mantra that’s caught on for long range lead is likely to see very poor bullet performance.

Some of the older high velocity cartridges lend themselves well to lighter copper bullets, think 243, 25-06,, 270 etc.
This is basically untrue as copper is less dense than lead so longer bullets are required and .243 .270 doesn’t have the twist rate to support longer bullets in general. That said they both can shoot copper but not optimal weights and lengths
 
Whatever chambering you can comfortably shoot to an acceptable accuracy, all the U.K. deer legal chamberings work and have been put to good use for a while.

As a “cover all” the 6.5’s are hard to beat for range of available bullet weights and ballistics.
 
This is basically untrue as copper is less dense than lead so longer bullets are required and .243 .270 doesn’t have the twist rate to support longer bullets in general. That said they both can shoot copper but not optimal weights and lengths

Really?

Standard copper weights in 243, 25-06 and 270 are 80, 90 and 110-130. Is there any need for any of those to be heavier?
 
"Is there an 'ideal' deer calibre"
You've had quite a few replies already and none of them are technically wrong
If the chosen cartridge/chambering (rather than calibre) is "deer legal", ie it launches a bullet of sufficient weight (where that matters), muzzle velocity (where that matters) and energy at the muzzle (where that matters) - then you're good to go shoot some deer.
Here in the UK, or British Isles, I've shot deer with various rifles/cartridges from .223Rem up to .375H&H Magnum and had no problems with any of them
Bullet choice seemed to be more important
Bullet placement is of equal or greater importance of course
I learnt from bitter & messy experience to avoid highly frangible bullets for instance and to avoid cheap factory ammo
I currently use a Sako S20 in 6.5PRC with copper bullets (Hornaday Outfitter 130gr CX) and although it can be difficult to find ammo for it (I'm going to have to homeload to make things easy) I think I might finally have settled on "my" rifle/cartridge
So, just like choice of rifle, sticks, knves, binos, clothing etc etc it's largely a personal choice and there's plenty of good options out there among the crap
 
come on guys 9.3x62 - nice slow push on the recoil, low velocity so big hole but limited bruises, keeps Roe in edible form. will knock over a big boar quite nicely and super flat trajectory out to 300m :oops:
 
I know this topic has been done to death but here goes…. The biggest change in the last few years has been the amount of long slippery sexy high bc bullets about these days. Essential these are better than the old bullets for wind drift which is great out at distance 300m plus. These bullets required high twist rate barrels and modern cartridges usually accommodate this, 1:8 or so. Some older cartridges also have a good twist usually like the 6.5x55 which always shot long for calibre bullets. Everyone loves a 270 I get that but it has a slow twist rate and consequently nobody makes high bc bullets in that calibre so it’s slightly behind the curve. It’s probably true, for the weight, 6.5-7mm have the highest bc of most normal cartridges so many shoot that diameter.
All of this doesn’t matter at all at 200m but out there a bit it really does. My mate was giving 6” wind drift in a .308 at 300m and I was giving 2” in my 6.5x55 that’s a big difference or at least significant for deer dispatch.

Gents I will reply properly when I get a chance from work. But this is generally where my thought process is at from a .270 user.

Is there a better rebarrel / twist rate if you were going further down the line?

Basically less wind drift should in theory make things ‘easier’.

I agree some calibers are also getting more sleek , high BC bullets than others.
 
Really?

Standard copper weights in 243, 25-06 and 270 are 80, 90 and 110-130. Is there any need for any of those to be heavier?
I think you missed the point copper is lighter that lead so a 100grn .243 copper would be longer than a lead 100grn .243 so require a different twist.
 
Gents I will reply properly when I get a chance from work. But this is generally where my thought process is at from a .270 user.

Is there a better rebarrel / twist rate if you were going further down the line?

Basically less wind drift should in theory make things ‘easier’.

I agree some calibers are also getting more sleek , high BC bullets than others.
Hello buddy, and good point about the potential issue of long sleek 270 cal bullets probably not being as plentiful as 6.5s or 7 mms. 👍

However hasnt the US military recently commited to a 270 cal project ? If so that could be significant, as military used calibers have way of ending up being popular.
In terms of 270 caliber catridges and chamberings allowing for long high bc bullets i believe the 6.8 western addresses that issue already. And from what i understand, it is picking up popularity in the states. So let's see, it might just come to europe soon enough, and perhaps replace a lot of the current 270 chamberings of many rifle makers.

I think you missed the point copper is lighter that lead so a 100grn .243 copper would be longer than a lead 100grn .243 so require a different twist.
yep, about 20 percent or so i believe, if we're talking similar bullet designs.👍


In general as to this topic, i think the poster who stated that there is no free lunch hit the nail on the head. And given that we are all different with regards to what we prefer, (and do not prefer in our rifles), as well as to what sort of deer, and in which type of terrain we might primarily be hunting, deciding which lunch is best for you really is a personal as, well, ordering lunch. ,)

Now unless you're primarily going to be hunting your deer in the hills or in the mountains, where longer shots will more often be taken, going for almost any one of the many mid'sized cartridges already mentioned in here might suit you well.
If you're new to shooting or recoil shy, maybe go for one of the smaller alternatives in terms of case capacity and/or the typical weight of bullet used, as both these elements affects recoil. Then again should you go for a 270, 30-06 7x64 sized case, which to some might seem to kick a bit, just make sure to put a suppressor on.
If you have access to a shooting range near you, and have a chance to go down there with a hunter friend and test shoot different calibers, that could be a good way to find out what you prefer.

As for the do it all cartridge argument, well, i do understand the sentiment, as who wouldnt want one single rifle that exceled at pretty much everything? But again, there is no free lunch, and every cartridge probably has a sweet spot where it does something quite well. So picking the tool that best suits the kind of work you'll primarily need to do with it, but is then ok at the other things you might occassionally need from it, is probably wise.

PS. If you want to to travel and hunt with your rifle, do be aware that some countries have caliber minimiums of 6.5 or 7mm for hunting certain types of game.
 
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7mm rem mag 9.5 twist, 100gr varmint bullets at 3800fps to high BC 175-190gr bullets bonded for plains/ DG.
 
I think you missed the point copper is lighter that lead so a 100grn .243 copper would be longer than a lead 100grn .243 so require a different twist.
I think what he meant is why do you need to shoot a 100gr bullet in .243? 80gr monolithics shoot very well in .243, are faster, and because they don’t break up have ample penetration for anything in the uk. I think he is aware of difference in density of lead and copper affecting bullet length
 
For me, most calibres are good. However, they aren’t all perfect.

The .243 is good but could possibly be argued as being on the small side to be perfect’ for all sizes of deer in the uk. I also think that you might as well forget about lead core bullets, despite incessant moaning by smellydog and a few others on here lead core bullets are dead in terms of deer management in the uk so the ‘perfect calibre’ will be really well suited to monolithic ammunition. As monolithic bullets work best with high impact velocity the perfect calibre will have a mix of high bc and high muzzle velocity.

I have already ruled out the 6mm, and the 25 cals and 270 cals tend to have poor bc so we can cross these out too. This leaves the 6.5, 7mm and 30 cals. The 30 cals can be pushed fast, but generally in cartridges that generate a bit more recoil, noise and cost than is needed for uk deer. The .308 as much as it can worth with non toxic can also perform miserably with hard bullets at longer ranges.

So now we are getting narrowed down. I think the fast 7mm can be crossed out for the same reason as the 30 cals, I would like magnum velocity to squeeze out a bit of performance from monolithic bullets. I personally shoot a 7mm rem mag and get on well with it but feel like it is a bit much for someone who doesn’t get much trigger time. It’s also very expensive to feed.

Now onto the 6.5mm. I have used both a 6.5x284 and a 6.5 creedmoor extensively on deer. After previously owning the 6.5x284 my current 6.5 creedmoor is very vanilla on deer. It has a loopy trajectory in comparison and the reduction in thump on larger deer is noticeable. It works, but I definitely prefer the 6.5x284, and this is even more so when shooting monolithics.

I’m not able to recommend the 6.5x284 as being perfect as rifles and factory ammo is non existent, you need to order a custom rifle and homeload your ammo, so because of this I would have to put forward the 6.5 prc as the perfect round for uk deer. It’s pretty available, low recoiling, shoots fast high bc bullets and has enough thump for everything in the uk.
 
Really?

Standard copper weights in 243, 25-06 and 270 are 80, 90 and 110-130. Is there any need for any of those to be heavier?
As I said both calibres shoot copper fine but if you want the sexy long high bc bullets then they are generally too long for the twist rate in those calibres. There are plenty sexy 6mm high bc bullets (some copper) that a .243 won’t shoot as the modern 6mm have faster twists. Not so many high bc 270 bullets I know the 6.8 western can shoot long bullets but there is still not many long high bc bullets in that calibre available that I know of.

Her is an example of a long high bc 6 mm bullet

“ Yew Tree Fieldsports TLRx 6mm .243” Bullets 95grains non toxic hunting bullets in 6mm .243” Tipped Long Range Bullet.

Note: These bullets do require a 7” twist or faster.”
 
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