Labrador Problem -

[Dunwaters]

Most dogs will go through a phase of giving you the finger at around 12 to 18 months regardless of gender.
He’s treating the return as a game, no big disaster there. Is he trained to drop to whistle? If not get him trained, call him in, drop him and walk to him. Retrieving to hand will also help. I use a whistle because there’s no doubt that he heard it.
If he persistently ignores the drop, don’t keep blowing, get out after him and make him comply.

 

[Buchan]

Most important thing is, when you do eventually catch him, don't scold him, no mstter how frustrated you are. Give plenty of praise and then - this is the key bit - immediately let him go again.

This is extremely sound advice. A failed recall command can turn into a command to stay away in the dog's brain

 

[VSS]

This is extremely sound advice. A failed recall command can turn into a command to stay away in the dog's brain

The thing is, if every time you successfully catch the dog you immediately put it on a lead (because you're ****ed off with how long it took to catch it, and you don't want to have to go through all that bother again) the dog sees the curtailment of his freedom as a negative association to being recalled. Immediately letting him go again (after plenty of praise) is the best reward you can give even if, initially, you have to go through it all again. I wouldn't put it on a lead until the third or fourth time he (eventually) returns to you during a training session.

It's all very well when people say that you have to be the boss of it, and that's true to a certain extent, but if you eventually want to end up with a dog that can work at distance, and potentially out of sight of its handler, it has to be a partnership with mutual trust and understanding. Not something that's been forced on it.

Remember, the dog can run faster than you, and react quicker than you, so if he chooses to give you the there's **** all you can do about it. So you need him to have trust and confidence in you to avoid such situations.
A cringing, dominated dog will only ever be a mediocre worker.

 

[Tom102938]

Thanks to most for the comments. Appreciate it

 

[countrryboy]

It could be a combination of many small things.
Possibly it is just the teenage rebellious stage that the dog might just grow out off.
If ur very confident u had the basics properly installed before he started playing up.
If u are 100% sure ur basics are properly installed it will likely cure itself.

Otherwise a combination of wot foxy, Bo, Dunwater and Vss have said.

The 1 problem at 1yr old will be a bugger to chase down.
Joe Irving the famous spaniel trainer used to say the best thing u can do with a pup is chase it down and catch it.
Then it never learns u can't catch it.
If ur going to chase it down need to pick ur battles and pick a small field/contained area.

But we'll worth going back to the most very basic.
Lots of heel work, stopping when u stop, sitting and letting u go through gates/doors 1st.

If a dog is running circles, try standing in the corner off a field or on a narrow path ( wether fenced or high vegetation. I used to use forestry wheel ruts) so the dog physically can't get past u.

Does it sit/stay?
If so sit it up and walk 100, 200,400m as long as it sits/stays and recall ( when ur in a tight area) it should bomb back too u and can't run circles.
Do it numerous times to get it running hard.
But only if it is recalling when it can't run circles.

Even throw in some high value treats.
Wether chicken smoked sausage etc

Another thing which may work is put the long line on plus ur slip lead, take ur slip lead off.

I seen a few folk mention tiring dogs out.
I'm never a great believer in it.
A its bloody hard to do.
B all ur doing is making u have a fitter dog which is still not trained.

Mental stimulation can be more tiring than physical.
Ideally could do some dummy work or trying to find/hunt hard for scented dummies to tire it physically.
But if not recalling well it probably won't recall well with a dummy either.

 

[countrryboy]

Just to add.
Only say a command once ( or occasionally twice if u think dog never heard u)

Repeating commands ur dog is ignoring is only teaching it it does not need to respond to ur 1st command.

And don't give a command u can't enforce or expect the dog to ignore.
If ur dog is running hard away from u wait till it turns/pauses before u blow the recall.
Or if dog is having a pee wait till its finished before giving it.

If u can't enforce the command, sometimes better to ignore the dogs actions that time.
But then go back to training and try to solve it when u can enforce it or change it.

 

[muddy42]

I think he is finding walking with you at heel too boring or not satisfying enough. First of all make sure he gets enough excercise at heel, I don't know what you are trying to achieve but personally I find dogs are quite black and white and it is hard for them to understand that roaming freely 20m away from you is OK one day and not the next. Nothing wrong with lots of lead work and this is best if you have family members who cant keep the dog in. Try to make it interesting, vary the route and pace, swap directions suddenly (also this shows you are in charge) stop and sit next to the dog and show them attention. Also labs tend to be highly motivated by their stomachs so keep up the treats.

 

[Marchman]

Good thread and good responses from experiences of dog owners. It's why I enjoy the SD and get a lot from it.

 

[CAVHUNT]

As has been suggested here using a long line so that you stay connected to the dog at all times and therefore in control can be a useful aid. At some appropriate point it will be time to unclip the line and discontinue its use. The trick here is to not go from full length line to the dog to being suddenly free of physical control and in control of himself again which maay prove to be disaterous. Do the unclipping in stages...aka...leave a length of line of say 6 yards and go on with all his other training. He will feel the weight of the line and think he is still attached to you. After a couple of weeks again shorten the line by several yards and go on as normal. Again after a couple more weeks reduce it to one yard.

When its time to totally remove the line Is when I trick the dog. Before beginning his "off the line" training I simply lean over the dog and fiddle with his collar for a minute or so which means he thinks the line is still attached to him. I do this every time for a ew weeks and then slowly reduce the collar fiddling to every second day and then every third day until it is no longer needed.

 

[John Gryphon]

Temu collar,$40 ..two shots and the dog is at your feet when you call it. There is generally no need for a refresher unless its very headstrong. my dogs for the last 20 years have learned the way of life with hot cattle fences...a **** farting little tickle from a collar is SFA.....i have had both,the fence is far hotter lol.

 

[Drum123]

Hmm.
He is calling the shots. Next time (in a safe place) when he refuses to come back you run off in the opposite direction and keep running away until he realises you are not where you were. He should come back at this point - lots of praise when he does usually works.
Repeat as required….

If I did this with my dogs they'd think "thank **** he's gone , come on lads let's go mental "

 

[gixer1]

I found the vibrating collars extremely effective with our spaniel, to a dogs mind ita a “mysterious force” that gives them a bad experience - you can still do the positive attention thing when he comes back but if he doesn’t like the vibration collar it will work a treat.

Also remember, he’s a young lab and it may just take time for him to settle.

My previous labs got better and better as they aged and settled.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[Foxyboy43]

If I did this with my dogs they'd think "thank **** he's gone , come on lads let's go mental "

There is always that chance of course…..

 

[mikey223]

Sounds like hes just being a pup. Dont freak out or keep calling him. The dog will learn doing this gets him attention and will soon latch on to that. Leave a slip lead dragging behind him once off the long line. Call him back in, once close stand on the slip lead blow stop whistle. Praise. If he tries to run off. Tug the slip lead. Once you have his attention again give praise. Positive reinforcement is crucial to build the bond, but also set boundaries. Best of luck with him. Making him sit and do nothing was one of the best things i did for my labs steadiness

 

[Steve.243]

As a relatively new dog owner myself with my first dog now I would say keep the faith, this is a problem you'll work through with time and effort. Dogs' actions are driven by motivation, at the point of recall his motivation to run away is greater than that to come straight to you. One way of working on this is building up your 'credit in the bank' with him - perhaps have some high value food or a toy for when you're working on recall with the long line so he knows he gets 'paid' for coming back. once you've started this vary the 'payment' - sometimes he gets kibble, others cheese or hotdog, sometimes just praise, and occasionally jackpot with a load of food. By this you're building up his motivation to return to you over the environment.

 

[countrryboy]

The 1 thing u have to be careful with food/treats or even just praise and claps.

The dog must be doing exactly wot u want when u praise or treat it.

May sound completely obvious but ud be amazed how many folk are giving it 'good boy' when training to walk to heel wheen dog is 1/2 a body too far infront.

When training recall possibly u can tolerate a bit of sloppiness in early days.
But really u only want to reward it when it recalls instantly on 1st command.

To be honest the best thing u can do with any dog is get it to sit instantly on the lead by upside.
Yes its boring but the more time u spend getting it quick and instant on 1 command, and only reward the very fast sits.
The easier every other aspect of training will be.
As if the dog is not 100% obedient next to u on a lead u have no chance when its 30m away.

 

[CAVHUNT]

countrryboy said - As if the dog is not 100% obedient next to u on a lead u have no chance when its 30m away.

Absolutely.

 

[Corf30]

Have you tried lane training?

 

[Bowland blades]

Hi all.

Having a problem with my Labrador at the moment and seeing if there is some advice what I haven't though of.

All of a sudden he has been doing an annoying but dangerous habit in the wrong environment

His recall! So when i give the signal he returns but then thinks its a game and runs off, then returns jumps around and runs off again. The type of excited run where they lower there arse right down and go into full on zoomies sprint!

I have gone back to basics with him with a long line and his recall is bang on what I want, but as soon as he is off the lead again, it is non existent. I say its non existent, he has recall when another dog approaches but if no one is about then it is a ****ing free for all!

He is one year old, intact (booking in soon to get them off).

apart from this he is and has been a fantastic dog. I just want to nip this in the arse before it gets worse.

Any advice?
Cheers

Its not the Dog ! Get some help from the correct trainer or local club . Taking a dogs Nuts off does not change anything but the lack og ability to breed.

 

[CAVHUNT]

Bowland blades said - Its not the Dog ! -

I'd suggest this is likely the case. In my experience the owner inadvertently causes a problem which then compounds with the dog behaving abnormally and getting away with it which is compounded even more by the owners attempts to rectify the problem. End result is a disaster. But...it can be remedied if the right remedial trainer is involved.

As to dog clubs for help...Hmmm...I don't know about you guys around the corner but in Oz I'd run away from dog clubs if seeking specialist help. One on one with a pro trainer is what I'd suggest. Spend the bucks and save the dog.