Lambs stinking of fox

[BenBhoy]

Good luck lol we did that many years ago end of May through into June the weather was great lovely and warm lambing out was easy till the flies started , 3 day old lambs with flystrike wasn't nice

No doubt I'm going to jinx it, but (stupid boy) im not that concerned about strike on lambs at that stage/age. More worried about the ewes! Had contractors in to shear for past 2 seasons (not got that desire anymore!!) but might end up doing the late Lambers myself.

 

[BenBhoy]

I've got a mini flock to lamb outdoors in May too!

Shearing plan? Any clik/dysect etc?

 

[BenBhoy]

I've got a mini flock to lamb outdoors in May too!

We can try outdo each other with how badly it goes!!

 

[landkeeper]

No doubt I'm going to jinx it, but (stupid boy) im not that concerned about strike on lambs at that stage/age. More worried about the ewes! Had contractors in to shear for past 2 seasons (not got that desire anymore!!) but might end up doing the late Lambers myself.

Navels was the flies spot of choice

 

[BenBhoy]

Navels was the flies spot of choice

Might apply touch of crovect around if I can still catch the buggers outside!

 

[Foxyboy43]

I wou

I would agree with what Tim says, that overall, lamb losses to foxes are exaggerated. However, on a local level, they can be significant. Last year, an extremely efficient sheep farmer locally was losing newborn lambs nightly; in fact, he actually caught the fox in the act one early morning. That night, I shot the fox as it made a beeline for a lamb, and from then on, no more were taken. So on occasions, to individual farmers, foxes predating on lambs can be a very real problem.
I've been running a fox control set-up for over sixty years and, to a degree, know what I'm talking about. Most foxes are drawn to lambing fields by easy pickings on the leftovers from the birthing process, afterbirth, colostrum-rich droppings and later on shed tails, etc. The vast majority of foxes are pretty timid around the ewes, but from time to time, there's a fox that realises it has the power and ability to take young lambs. These are usually quite bold individuals and can be a real problem.
When lambing takes place in the open, far more lambs die of natural causes than are killed by foxes. But it happens, and when it does has to be dealt with.

Excellent post OK - fairly balanced and based on real-life experience.
I agree with all you say - in particular what I describe as the dinner gong effect of a field of ewes starting to lamb. This of course is not confined to foxes - I am sure many members have been out on occasion in daylight hours where pretty much every covid/predator flying has turned up for the easy post-birth pickings or natural fatality - usually followed by their furry friends of all shapes and sizes later that night. Such is nature and presumably why the breeding cycle of predators coincides with that of their prey.
Back to foxes - in my own experience as recently as last year, I received a call asking for help from the son-in-law of an elderly farmer who was keeping a small flock which had started to lamb. He had lost 12 in that week and was in despair after witnessing that very afternoon the 12th being taken by a large fox as it was half out of the ewe - clearly leaving no doubt about the cause of at least some of the losses. This is of course exceptional and never seen by me in all my many years of fox control.
Long story short - I shot five foxes over a few evenings/nights in the lambing fields - one of which was the biggest I have ever seen - by far, was it the lamb killer? How would I know, short of an autopsy? The predation and losses stopped immediately and through regular visits in the intervening 15 months and shooting a total of 29 foxes on his and his neighbours’ ground neither he nor my new best friends (his sheep owning neighbours) have reported any losses through predation this entire lambing season.
Now, were all 29 lamb killers? Certainly not - but how does one differentiate? So unfortunately and I write as an admirer of our finest predator, they habituated “lamb central” so simply had to go - not for pleasure but for control.
Just my thoughts and as an aside and not germane to this discussion the increase in night-feeding birdlife is already very noticeable - no doubt for the same reason.
As a segue from the foxes and lambs debate - class discuss…...

 

[Foxyboy43]

Excellent post OK - fairly balanced and based on real-life experience.
I agree with all you say - in particular what I describe as the dinner gong effect of a field of ewes starting to lamb. This of course is not confined to foxes - I am sure many members have been out on occasion in daylight hours where pretty much every covid/predator flying has turned up for the easy post-birth pickings or natural fatality - usually followed by their furry friends of all shapes and sizes later that night. Such is nature and presumably why the breeding cycle of predators coincides with that of their prey.
Back to foxes - in my own experience as recently as last year, I received a call asking for help from the son-in-law of an elderly farmer who was keeping a small flock which had started to lamb. He had lost 12 in that week and was in despair after witnessing that very afternoon the 12th being taken by a large fox as it was half out of the ewe - clearly leaving no doubt about the cause of at least some of the losses. This is of course exceptional and never seen by me in all my many years of fox control.
Long story short - I shot five foxes over a few evenings/nights in the lambing fields - one of which was the biggest I have ever seen - by far, was it the lamb killer? How would I know, short of an autopsy? The predation and losses stopped immediately and through regular visits in the intervening 15 months and shooting a total of 29 foxes on his and his neighbours’ ground neither he nor my new best friends (his sheep owning neighbours) have reported any losses through predation this entire lambing season.
Now, were all 29 lamb killers? Certainly not - but how does one differentiate? So unfortunately and I write as an admirer of our finest predator, they habituated “lamb central” so simply had to go - not for pleasure but for control.
Just my thoughts and as an aside and not germane to this discussion the increase in night-feeding birdlife is already very noticeable - no doubt for the same reason.
As a segue from the foxes and lambs debate - class discuss…...

Covid? I must have been still asleep!
Nurse!

 

[VSS]

Navels was the flies spot of choice

Within three days of birth, I think you said in your earlier post?
I would have thought that the treatment that you applied to the navels at birth (iodine or whatever is your product of choice) would have gone some way towards preventing that?

 

[VSS]

Shearing plan? Any clik/dysect etc?

If I hadn't been so busy I might have sheared them pre lambing.

We can try outdo each other with how badly it goes!!

I did the same last year, and it went well.
So much so that I'm considering moving a couple of hundred ewes to a May lambing system.

 

[VSS]

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[VSS]

.
As a segue from the foxes and lambs debate - class discuss…...

Well firstly that's a calf, not a lamb.
A fairly sturdy calf by the looks of things, not a weak one that's going to lie there and allow itself to be predated without resistance.
My guess is that the fox is feeding off the sticky milky faeces that's adhering to the calf's tail and back end. It's gungey yellow stuff, and foxes and dogs are addicted to it.
If you can provide a follow-up photo of the calf next morning, minus it's tail and with chunks bitten out of it I'll think again, but I reckon if the fox gave the calf a proper nip then the calf would simply get up and move.

 

[old keeper]

I don't think the fox/lamb problem is so bad today, as many lambs are born indoors. In the past, when the bulk of lambs were born outdoors, it was a totally different matter. On one occasion, when I was a lad, I was cycling home with my trusty old 12-bore and a couple of foxes strapped on the crossbar late one summer evening and in a roadside field, I saw a fox circling a couple of newborn lambs. For several minutes, it just walked round them, but gradually it got more and more worked up and started nipping at the ears and tails of both of them. It ignored the ewe who was stamping her feet at the fox who was now really going for it.
I didn't have permission to shoot this ground, and in any case, by the time I had untied the gun and foxes, it would have been too late. I shinnied over the hedge and ran at the fox, who stood its ground till I was only a few yards away. By now, one of the lambs was bleeding from the ears, and I have no doubt the fox would have gone on to kill it. I hung around for a while to make sure the fox didn't return, and when I got home, I phoned the farmer to let him know what happened.
As a result he asked me to shoot any foxes I saw on his land whuich I did for the next fifty years or so.

 

[VSS]

I don't think the fox/lamb problem is so bad today, as many lambs are born indoors. In the past, when the bulk of lambs were born outdoors, it was a totally different matter. On one occasion, when I was a lad, I was cycling home with my trusty old 12-bore and a couple of foxes strapped on the crossbar late one summer evening and in a roadside field, I saw a fox circling a couple of newborn lambs. For several minutes, it just walked round them, but gradually it got more and more worked up and started nipping at the ears and tails of both of them. It ignored the ewe who was stamping her feet at the fox who was now really going for it.
I didn't have permission to shoot this ground, and in any case, by the time I had untied the gun and foxes, it would have been too late. I shinnied over the hedge and ran at the fox, who stood its ground till I was only a few yards away. By now, one of the lambs was bleeding from the ears, and I have no doubt the fox would have gone on to kill it. I hung around for a while to make sure the fox didn't return, and when I got home, I phoned the farmer to let him know what happened.
As a result he asked me to shoot any foxes I saw on his land whuich I did for the next fifty years or so.

That's a good observation to have made.
Confirms what I have said about foxes always taking the ears off lambs. It's pretty much their trademark. If a damaged lamb still has its ears intact, then look elsewhere for the cause of damage.

 

[landkeeper]

Not lambs but piglets. I spent a few weeks one year with a keeper friend in Hampshire one evening we were watching a fox going round an outdoor pig farrowing setup , this fox knew its game it would hop the 2 strands of electric fence then carefully approach the pig hut and peer in , it was chased off several times by the sow in each hut it would leg it and move on to the next hut we watched it for maybe 20mins or so eventually it darted into a hut and grabbed a piglet and hi tailed it
It had obviously done it before and had it down to a fine art !

 

[Brittany boy]

Just as an aside this is one of the best yers the shepherd has had, the dry weather was great and no fox issues up until this one came into the sheds, as folk have said just an opportunist no healthy lambs lost in the fields, so maybe just bad mothering by the young ewe and tired eyes confusion by the shepherd at a very busy time. Nice to her everyone’s opinions

 

[VSS]

Not lambs but piglets. I spent a few weeks one year with a keeper friend in Hampshire one evening we were watching a fox going round an outdoor pig farrowing setup , this fox knew its game it would hop the 2 strands of electric fence then carefully approach the pig hut and peer in , it was chased off several times by the sow in each hut it would leg it and move on to the next hut we watched it for maybe 20mins or so eventually it darted into a hut and grabbed a piglet and hi tailed it
It had obviously done it before and had it down to a fine art !

I'm with you there 100%
Foxes are a nightmare on outdoor pig units.

 

[old keeper]

Foxes love piglets!
I've seen a pair of foxes working together. After dark, one would jump up onto the ark and lie with its head over the front, the second fox would keep running up to the entrance, and eventually the sow would run out after the fox. The fox on the roof of the ark would jump down and grab one of the piglets, and off they would go. We shot a considerable number of foxes on that farm many years ago and saw the same technique used several times.

 

[BenBhoy]

Yeah, when I was running 2 outdoor farrowing sites some Foxes could be a menace.. think it simply down to the number's of young to one sow .

We didn't shoot on there, landowners just refused but I use to snare them effectively.

 

[Smellydog]

Seen the same thing on pig units

 

[Brad93]

Badger worse than foxes i'd say.
Crows worse than both combined.

this was from facebook

Spoiler: Gruesome