Lead ammunition restrictions - government announcement

[Liveonce]

I find it amazing (and impressive) that Connor O'Gorman keeps engaging with this forum.

Why I try not to make it personal, i have never called him a bot.

 

[jall55]

ive used it wildfowling , ive tried it on driven partridge I dont find it as effective as lead , that being said its looking like ill have to use it at some point , the rifle side bothers me more than anything as im shooting a lot of deer

Again - and although i only shoot a few deer - i have several pals who shoot deer - and by anyone's tally - these lads shoot lots of deer - and they have gone to copper - no issues other than a little bit more bruising

 

[Pine Marten]

I use steel on the Marsh (as you must) decoy duck into a sensible range and let the high birds go as it runs out of energy quicker than people think at distance. Fast over a short distance, Last flt the one in the video was on the 20th with 12 teal.

As for the debate "the voice of shooting" lost it's voice and took the wages.

Ok well same for everyone then. Shoot at sensible ranges. A lot of people will shoot at stupidly high duck. It's poor fieldcraft and frightens them off. And it's expensive with your non-lead cartridges!! So, you know, we're hunters, not snipers. The field craft will make up for differing metal densities. You're clearly getting on fine because you have the hunting skills. Let's perpetuate that.

 

[Hambone]

Why I try not to make it personal, i have never called him a bot.

He left off an o and m. he really meant arse

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

So still no reply to my question, as others have said you are very good at avoiding answering direct questions.

So I will take it as a yes BASC did fund the GWCT - BASC awarded the GWCT £300,000

Just possibly BASC would get more respect by being honest and just simply stating it is in favour of a total lead shot ban regardless of the consequences for all shooting activities.

No, you need to be honest, you are trolling simple as. I have helped you out with answers on this forum dozens and dozens of times , rising above the constant sniping at BASC. Enough is enough. You have crossed a line as far as I am concerned calling into question the integrity of the GWCT scientists. Shame on you. And for the avoidance of doubt, GWCT published its scientific advice on lead ammunition in February 2020. BASC helped the GWCT with a £300k donation in 2021. You knew this of course because its in the public domain, but you wanted to ask a question and make insinuations to deflect from the GWCT update - well done on that. Please don't ask me any more questions on this forum. You won't get an answer and you made it onto the ignore list.

 

[Tim.243]

Ok well same for everyone then. Shoot at sensible ranges. A lot of people will shoot at stupidly high duck. It's poor fieldcraft and frightens them off. And it's expensive with your non-lead cartridges!! So, you know, we're hunters, not snipers. The field craft will make up for differing metal densities. You're clearly getting on fine because you have the hunting skills. Let's perpetuate that.

Eco-wads, or biodegradable shotgun wads, have been in development for several years, with a notable push towards their introduction around 2018-2019. Eley Hawk, for example, accelerated their development in 2018 to launch an eco-friendly option for wildfowlers in the summer of 2019,

So 2016 it would have been a plastic cup cartridge where I have been using fibre wad with lead for as long as I can remember.

 

[Pine Marten]

So 2016 it would have been a plastic cup cartridge where I have been using fibre wad with lead for as long as I can remember.

Yes they were Remington rounds with plastic wads, and what's more I missed that pair of greylags as the recoil just drilled my legs deeper into the mud. The current cartridges are much better and have biodegradable wads. Which my shooting syndicate is also transitioning to. Use up your current stock but no more plastic after that.

 

[VSS]

Consumer choice and the current lack of viable alternative options might have a great deal to with that.
Since 2020 these choices in practical terms have been limited , especially if you don't wish to use, or your shoot prohibit plastic wads or indeed if you are using anything smaller than 12 bore. The cartridge manufacturers did warn us about this from the outset, and they claim that they weren't forewarned anyway. Blaming the consumer for this hardly seems appropriate so I'm afraid that we must agree to differ

I didn't wholly blame the consumer (ie, those of us who buy and use ammunition) in my post. I also mentioned ancillary industries (ie, cartridge manufacturers etc). But I do partially blame ourselves (shooters) for creating insufficient demand to prompt research and development into new products. Basically, we've just bought what was put in front of us without question.
The writing has been on the wall for lead ammunition not since 2020, but for 40 years (or whenever it was that lead shot fishing weights were banned) which is plenty of time for a forward-thinking industry to come up with some usable alternatives without being pushed into it. The shooting industry could have taken the initiative, shown itself to be progressive, and preempted all of this current situation.
Instead, the industry has shown itself to be anything but forward-thinking and has just sat on its hands and done nothing. And is now spluttering with disgruntlement at the inevitable.

Edit: After posting the above, I read the GWCT piece that has been linked to in another post.
I'm clearly not alone in my thoughts, as here is a quote from the comments section beneath the article:

"In 1972 onwards I worked for what was then the Game Conservancy at their Wildfowl Project base at Gt. Linford in Bucks and, even back then, we were voicing concerns about lead shot in the gizzards of sampled wildfowl. I really do think there has been plenty of time in the interim for the shooting communities to get their act together and cease the production and use of lead shot. By their procrastination all they have done is affect the overall populations of wildfowl game species to the detriment of the continuation of their sport, both in numbers and public perceptions of the conservation concerns so oft expressed by the shooting fraternity, metaphorically shooting themselves in both feet. The research has been done, the results are in, now get on with it."

 

[Liveonce]

No, you need to be honest, you are trolling simple as. I have helped you out with answers on this forum dozens and dozens of times , rising above the constant sniping at BASC. Enough is enough. You have crossed a line as far as I am concerned calling into question the integrity of the GWCT scientists. Shame on you. And for the avoidance of doubt, GWCT published its scientific advice on lead ammunition in February 2020. BASC helped the GWCT with a £300k donation in 2021. You knew this of course because its in the public domain, but you wanted to ask a question and make insinuations to deflect from the GWCT update - well done on that. Please don't ask me any more questions on this forum. You won't get an answer and you made it onto the ignore list.

Think plenty are deflecting from the GWCT update without my help looking at the comments on the update, which none are mine.

most be a long list.

 

[Smellydog]

I think I will try a few box's of #5 steel this winter being a big believer in pattern density over individual ft/lbs per pellet..... bloody hell....wad wise, not bothered, my hand was forced!

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Think plenty are deflecting from the GWCT update without my help looking at the comments on the update, which none are mine.

most be a long list.

I think there should be a mass exodus from all shooting organisations period!

Then let’s see what other bright ideas they come up with

 

[Liveonce]

I didn't wholly blame the consumer (ie, those of us who buy and use ammunition) in my post. I also mentioned ancillary industries (ie, cartridge manufacturers etc). But I do partially blame ourselves (shooters) for creating insufficient demand to prompt research and development into new products. Basically, we've just bought what was put in front of us without question.
The writing has been on the wall for lead ammunition not since 2020, but for 40 years (or whenever it was that lead shot fishing weights were banned) which is plenty of time for a forward-thinking industry to come up with some usable alternatives without being pushed into it. The shooting industry could have taken the initiative, shown itself to be progressive, and preempted all of this current situation.
Instead, the industry has shown itself to be anything but forward-thinking and has just sat on its hands and done nothing. And is now spluttering with disgruntlement at the inevitable.

Non toxic shot cartridges have been available for a long time in 12gauge, is it lack of forward-thinking that stopped the move over to them or price difference, most all the time they can just buy the cheapest that meets their needs and lead shot has continued to be the cheapest option to this day. Spend a day at an RFD and you virtually never get a customer ask what is the best cartridge for their use, only what is the cheapest.

Game shooting at commercial shoots likely the exception where the cost of the bird is far higher than the cost of a cartridge, but for pigeon shooting where you are lucky to get 25p for a bird why would you pay more than you have to for the cartridge until forced to do so.

Competition clay shooting again serious competitors are willing to pay more but the club level shooter will not.

just human nature I guess.

 

[VSS]

Non toxic shot cartridges have been available for a long time in 12gauge, is it lack of forward-thinking that stopped the move over to them or price difference, most all the time they can just buy the cheapest that meets their needs and lead shot has continued to be the cheapest option to this day. Spend a day at an RFD and you virtually never get a customer ask what is the best cartridge for their use, only what is the cheapest.

Game shooting at commercial shoots likely the exception where the cost of the bird is far higher than the cost of a cartridge, but for pigeon shooting where you are lucky to get 25p for a bird why would you pay more than you have to for the cartridge until forced to do so.

Competition clay shooting again serious competitors are willing to pay more but the club level shooter will not.

just human nature I guess.

A "chicken and egg" situation, I guess.
Has lack of demand kept the price high (due to smaller production runs), or has the high price resulted in a lack of demand?

 

[timbrayford]

Yes, you have touched a nerve, my patience is coming to an end with these ridiculous comments.

I didn't wholly blame the consumer (ie, those of us who buy and use ammunition) in my post. I also mentioned ancillary industries (ie, cartridge manufacturers etc). But I do partially blame ourselves (shooters) for creating insufficient demand to prompt research and development into new products. Basically, we've just bought what was put in front of us without question.
The writing has been on the wall for lead ammunition not since 2020, but for 40 years (or whenever it was that lead shot fishing weights were banned) which is plenty of time for a forward-thinking industry to come up with some usable alternatives without being pushed into it. The shooting industry could have taken the initiative, shown itself to be progressive, and preempted all of this current situation.
Instead, the industry has shown itself to be anything but forward-thinking and has just sat on its hands and done nothing. And is now spluttering with disgruntlement at the inevitable.

Edit: After posting the above, I read the GWCT piece that has been linked to in another post.
I'm clearly not alone in my thoughts, as here is a quote from the comments section beneath the article:

"In 1972 onwards I worked for what was then the Game Conservancy at their Wildfowl Project base at Gt. Linford in Bucks and, even back then, we were voicing concerns about lead shot in the gizzards of sampled wildfowl. I really do think there has been plenty of time in the interim for the shooting communities to get their act together and cease the production and use of lead shot. By their procrastination all they have done is affect the overall populations of wildfowl game species to the detriment of the continuation of their sport, both in numbers and public perceptions of the conservation concerns so oft expressed by the shooting fraternity, metaphorically shooting themselves in both feet. The research has been done, the results are in, now get on with it."

Again we'll have to agree to differ, you can't buy what is not available.

 

[Liveonce]

A "chicken and egg" situation, I guess.
Has lack of demand kept the price high (due to smaller production runs), or has the high price resulted in a lack of demand?

Possibly lots of factors, covid and wars have not helped with component supply’s and had the cartridge manufactures engaged in the process by discontinuing and stopped even bringing out new offerings of lead cartridges in favour of steel shot cartridges then may be the increased volume of manufacturing would have driven down costs and driven up sales. Focused on live quarry shooting products.

How brave would they needed to be, it would have been very risky I guess.

Still going to be very challenging with the proposed three year rather than five year transition period and now a total ban that’s a lot of steel shot needed

 

[timbrayford]

A "chicken and egg" situation, I guess.
Has lack of demand kept the price high (due to smaller production runs), or has the high price resulted in a lack of demand?

Or indeed lack of confidence in what is being offered

 

[VSS]

Again we'll have to agree to differ, you can't buy what is not available.

But if you ask for it often enough then you are creating demand, and it will become available. Manufacturers want to produce what people want to buy.
Our only fault lies in not asking when we should have.

To be honest, I'm completely ambivalent about the whole thing. Provided I can find something to send down my barrel I'll keep on shooting.
But I do think that by burying our heads in the sand we've deprived ourselves of what could have been a very interesting few decades of experimentation with a lot of different (and potentially exciting) new products.
Instead, we're going to get something forced upon us in a hurry, with very little input from ourselves in the development of it. I think we've been a bit silly, really.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Lead ammunition restrictions are timetabled for 2029 and a BASC FAQ is here:

Lead ammunition restrictions - your questions answered

Read our answers to questions about the planned lead ammunition legislation and what it means for shotgun, rifle and airgun shooters.

basc.org.uk

A detailed Defra briefing and the draft regulations are here:

UK REACH restriction for lead in ammunition, 27 June 2025

Decision on a restriction proposal for lead in ammunition under UK REACH, including a draft amendment.

www.gov.uk

Are you going to fight for the 6mm to be exempt from restrictions? Or likewise for anything going in to the commercial food chain and allow us to decide if we wish to eat this awful lead contaminated meat?

 

[jall55]

I think I will try a few box's of #5 steel this winter being a big believer in pattern density over individual ft/lbs per pellet..... bloody hell....wad wise, not bothered, my hand was forced!

But you are bothered SD - you dont want to pollute the land you love mate

Try those Eley i suggested - if you are ever up this way i will give you box to try mate - i seem to recall Mrs SD dragging you occasionally to Doncaster i think !

 

[Liveonce]

But if you ask for it often enough then you are creating demand, and it will become available. Manufacturers want to produce what people want to buy.
Our only fault lies in not asking when we should have.

To be honest, I'm completely ambivalent about the whole thing. Provided I can find something to send down my barrel I'll keep on shooting.
But I do think that by burying our heads in the sand we've deprived ourselves of what could have been a very interesting few decades of experimentation with a lot of different (and potentially exciting) new products.
Instead, we're going to get something forced upon us in a hurry, with very little input from ourselves in the development of it. I think we've been a bit silly, really.

Still a few years yet and the uncertainty has been removed. Some big businesses in the ammunition and cartridge industries so development may now happen at a faster rate. This would be further helped if the EU lead ban goes ahead and is not as they are trying to do push for a ten year transition period.