Lead ban by Autumn 2023 - Cut and Pasted from Pigeon Watch

[25 Sharps]

Steel rocks

For rifle bullets??

 

[shakey jake]

If you were in the building trade which you obviously aren't you would realise that lead on the roof of a building gets thinner over the years as the water washes it away and where does it end up in rain water drains which ends up in our drinking water. And in you and me.
Do you know that there is more lead in an acre of land containing potatoes, why potatoes I don't know, that the shooting industries drops in 10 years.
Only areas which hard water produce lime, areas with soft water don't, what coats their lead pipes.

i was in the building trade, very little water from run off goes into, or should go into the sewers and on to water treatment plants.
im sure some does but id think the amount is miniscule.
how quickly does it thin? ive seen very old rooves that appear fine.
soft water pipes could be an issue but if the pipes are dissolving wouldnt we be see leaks and replacement of them by now?
just because our grand parents did it doesnt mean we should.
ingesting lead in fragments of meat whether your worried or not is clearly not good for you.
at some stage we will have to embrace all non lead ammo.
may be a work around will be allowed for certain types of firearm but i doubt it

 

[StephenToast]

Do you know that there is more lead in an acre of land containing potatoes, why potatoes I don't know, that the shooting industries drops in 10 years.

I'm sorry but this is just pure bull****.

What acre of land, where in the country?

What part of the shooting industry? Dropped how?

You are trying to say that there is more lead in an acre field of potatoes than in all of the shotfun cartridges fired at pheasants and pigeons, and clay pigeons and all of the .22lr and centrefire and all of the other lead ammunition fired in the country over a decade? Thousands of tonnes of lead.

You are saying that there are thousands of tonnes of lead in every acre of potatoes? That wouldn't leave any room for soil.

You can't believe that can you?

 

[hendrix's rifle]

ingesting lead in fragments of meat whether your worried or not is clearly not good for you.

Exactly the same can be said for copper, which is also toxic... So that argument is irrelevant immediately.
How many people in the UK have died due to lead consumption? Out of those people, how many has eaten lead shot game?

Or, how many people die from exhaust fumes? Or fumes from spray booths? How many people die from RTC's yearly? My point is, they're putting a ban in place which frankly, is completely pointless. Will it save anyone? No. There is still more lead in the majority of foods than there is in lead shot game. So why aren't they being banned? It's another nail to the proverbial coffin.

There still isn't a suitable alternative in air rifles, rim fires and the only way to get your small CF to work is to get it rebarreled. And before I get the inevitable 'use these, they work at 100 yards on a day with 1mph wind' which again, are pretty useless when it comes to anything of a reasonable range, there IS NOT a suitable lead free bullet yet for the above. So that means the rabbit population is going to soar along with every other small game species because they won't be getting shot... And obviously the target shooters that like plinking steel at silly ranges on farm land they're allowed to. It's going to cost us a bloody fortune which I know I can't afford.

I zero'd my 7mm last week. 4 rounds. Well over £5 for those rounds.
The maths says £11.80 for 4 rounds... Mostly due to the massive cost of the bullet alone... They won't be used for plinking... Another down side to lead free, the cost... I actually practice with my rifles. I won't be doing that any longer!

So, lead free will really cock up a lot of shooting for most when there isn't any actual need for it.

 

[stubear]

I will just share this again…. Lead in game is so far down the list of priorities it should be an utter irrelevance.

The only reason it isn’t is because hammering shooting is the way the left perpetuates and continues it’s ridiculous class warfare, and it’s the way the establishment gets guns out of the hands of the little people (ie you and me).

 

[shakey jake]

Exactly the same can be said for copper, which is also toxic... So that argument is irrelevant immediately.
How many people in the UK have died due to lead consumption? Out of those people, how many has eaten lead shot game?

Or, how many people die from exhaust fumes? Or fumes from spray booths? How many people die from RTC's yearly? My point is, they're putting a ban in place which frankly, is completely pointless. Will it save anyone? No. There is still more lead in the majority of foods than there is in lead shot game. So why aren't they being banned? It's another nail to the proverbial coffin.

There still isn't a suitable alternative in air rifles, rim fires and the only way to get your small CF to work is to get it rebarreled. And before I get the inevitable 'use these, they work at 100 yards on a day with 1mph wind' which again, are pretty useless when it comes to anything of a reasonable range, there IS NOT a suitable lead free bullet yet for the above. So that means the rabbit population is going to soar along with every other small game species because they won't be getting shot... And obviously the target shooters that like plinking steel at silly ranges on farm land they're allowed to. It's going to cost us a bloody fortune which I know I can't afford.

I zero'd my 7mm last week. 4 rounds. Well over £5 for those rounds.
The maths says £11.80 for 4 rounds... Mostly due to the massive cost of the bullet alone... They won't be used for plinking... Another down side to lead free, the cost... I actually practice with my rifles. I won't be doing that any longer!

So, lead free will really cock up a lot of shooting for most when there isn't any actual need for it.

copper is an essiantial element in the body with safe levels, lead is not.
i understand the cost is off putting but i dont think the public will care.
lead levels in blood have been linked to cancers.
would you send your kids to a school with dodgy asbestos because the cost to change is expensive?
and remember we didnt know asbestos was dangerous till a link was found

 

[StephenToast]

I will just share this again…. Lead in game is so far down the list of priorities it should be an utter irrelevance.

The only reason it isn’t is because hammering shooting is the way the left perpetuates and continues it’s ridiculous class warfare, and it’s the way the establishment gets guns out of the hands of the little people (ie you and me).

Is that graph "contribution to total exposure" To what? One person? Per capita? What country? Where in that country? Based on a survey of how many people?

 

[hendrix's rifle]

copper is an essiantial element in the body with safe levels, lead is not.
i understand the cost is off putting but i dont think the public will care.
lead levels in blood have been linked to cancers.
would you send your kids to a school with dodgy asbestos because the cost to change is expensive?
and remember we didnt know asbestos was dangerous till a link was found

You've missed the point. No doubt if you've got children you take them around in the car... They go to the city/town and are exposed to all sorts of nasty toxins... They eat food full of lead anyway, as @stubear has previously said and has reiterated.
Do you drink? Or smoke? Same thing...

So, irrelevant and pointless. The fact it's caused such a divide within the shooting community has shown our major weakness and a way to chip through at us.

Anyway, I'm off to find a CWD I'm pretty sure I buried but not entirely convinced where... Must be all the lead

 

[shakey jake]

I will just share this again…. Lead in game is so far down the list of priorities it should be an utter irrelevance.

The only reason it isn’t is because hammering shooting is the way the left perpetuates and continues it’s ridiculous class warfare, and it’s the way the establishment gets guns out of the hands of the little people (ie you and me).

has any one looked at how the lead got in to the foods?

 

[Liveonce]

Anyway, I'm off to find a CWD I'm pretty sure I buried but not entirely convinced where... Must be all the lead

More likely the mercury in any fillings you have in your teeth mad as a hatter

 

[stubear]

Is that graph "contribution to total exposure" To what? One person? Per capita? What country? Where in that country? Based on a survey of how many people?

Let me google that for you…

It is adult mean exposure across a multitude of European countries from populations samples of ~1000 up to ~4500 on a per country basis.

The countries were Austria; BE: Belgium; BG: Bulgaria; CZ: Czechoslovakia; DE: Germany; DK: Denmark; EE: Estonia; FI: Finland; FR: France; GB: Great Britain; HU: Hungary; IE: Ireland; IS: Iceland; IT: Italy; NL: The Netherland; NO: Norway; PL: Poland; SE: Sweden; SK: Slovakia

 

[Apthorpe]

i was in the building trade, very little water from run off goes into, or should go into the sewers and on to water treatment plants.
im sure some does but id think the amount is miniscule.

I’d love for you to explain that to the water companies who charge for the treatment of the water run off from each property. Where do you think it does go?
Clue: Surface water and highway drainage - Ofwat

how quickly does it thin? ive seen very old rooves that appear fine.
soft water pipes could be an issue but if the pipes are dissolving wouldnt we be see leaks and replacement of them by now?
just because our grand parents did it doesnt mean we should.
ingesting lead in fragments of meat whether your worried or not is clearly not good for you.

Obviously, but that is not a reason to ban it. The only justifiable reasons for banning it are: A) welfare of shot animals, inefficacy, excessive wounding etc, a criterion that actually favours retaining lead B) that lead-shot game meat harms human health to a serious degree, which it does not, or C) that it is known to cause excessive environmental harm, which outside wetlands, it does not.

at some stage we will have to embrace all non lead ammo.
may be a work around will be allowed for certain types of firearm but i doubt it

What you mean is that at some stage we will have to embrace not shooting at all, not owning property and the elimination of most fundamental rights. This is not about toxic metal.

 

[shakey jake]

i only worked on victorian houses that drained rain water into the sewer, any new house or extension used a soak away.
what is excessive environmental damage?

 

[timbrayford]

who will pay the government?
the argument about flashing is farcical. no body eats dinner off the roof.
water pipes in most of the country will be full of limescale and no problem.
but back to my initial point the government has no money of its own just our money.

Yes but look at the slates and tiles beneath the flashing and you will observe how the lead gradually leaches out into the environment as it slowly dissolves in acid rain

 

[timbrayford]

copper is an essiantial element in the body with safe levels, lead is not.
i understand the cost is off putting but i dont think the public will care.
lead levels in blood have been linked to cancers.
would you send your kids to a school with dodgy asbestos because the cost to change is expensive?
and remember we didnt know asbestos was dangerous till a link was found

So how am I still here and the rest of my shot game consuming friends? It's a bit of a mystery isn't it?

 

[timbrayford]

So how am I still here and the rest of my shot game consuming friends? It's a bit of a mystery isn't it?

Perhaps to answer my own question it is all the salmonella eggs and BSE beef on the bone that I have consumed has given me a tolerance of the minute quantity of lead residues in game meat?

 

[Apthorpe]

i only worked on victorian houses that drained rain water into the sewer, any new house or extension used a soak away.

I live in a 9yr old property. The run off goes into sewers and I am billed accordingly. Ofwat says most water goes into sewers. Either way, I don't see that it has any particular relevance to lead ammunition.

what is excessive environmental damage?

An amount that is widely detectable and constitutes a population level threat to species. The general use of lead ammunition over most land does not have that effect.

 

[StephenToast]

Let me google that for you…

It is adult mean exposure across a multitude of European countries from populations samples of ~1000 up to ~4500 on a per country basis.

The countries were Austria; BE: Belgium; BG: Bulgaria; CZ: Czechoslovakia; DE: Germany; DK: Denmark; EE: Estonia; FI: Finland; FR: France; GB: Great Britain; HU: Hungary; IE: Ireland; IS: Iceland; IT: Italy; NL: The Netherland; NO: Norway; PL: Poland; SE: Sweden; SK: Slovakia

And does it state what proportion of their diet game meat contributed vs potatoes, wheat, and tap water? All of which are extremely common in the diets of all of those countries vs game meat which is likely not.

 

[stubear]

And does it state what proportion of their diet game meat contributed vs potatoes, wheat, and tap water? All of which are extremely common in the diets of all of those countries vs game meat which is likely not.

LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You

For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.

lmgtfy.app

 

[Apthorpe]

And does it state what proportion of their diet game meat contributed vs potatoes, wheat, and tap water? All of which are extremely common in the diets of all of those countries vs game meat which is likely not.

So what? The risk is what it is. Negligible. It is futile and irrelevant to pretend that the risk of eating lead shot game would be greater if it was consumed more frequently.