CarlW
Well-Known Member
What distance?
Lead free (copper) bullets
- Thread starter Irish Bob
- Start date
What distance?
I'm not sure that's what you meant JCS ?
I am pretty sure SNH will not be shooting deer with bullets weighing less than 100gr
long_range_rob
Well-Known Member
Just a straight 100m
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Rob.
It would be interesting to see the same side-by-side test at 300m or 400m. I think that would help to allay (or confirm) the fears of people like me who are very reluctant in this area.
PS: just musing; not setting you a task...
Kind regards,
Carl
As Ranger22 has stated FLS rangers in Scotland rarely use .243, with the calibre of choice being .270.
So dropping down in weight means dropping from say 130g to 110g
Thanks, Rob.
It would be interesting to see the same side-by-side test at 300m or 400m. I think that would help to allay (or confirm) the fears of people like me who are very reluctant in this area.
PS: just musing; not setting you a task...
Kind regards,
Carl
you are looking for a bullet to perform at 300-400m?
We have the recovered bullets from impact/terminal velocities of 2200fps shot at 100m
Its not realistic to actually shoot at 300m, you adjust load to give the velocities you are testing instead.
The 2200fps is the equivalent terminal velocity of a G1 0.38 130gr bullet with a MV of 3000fps shot at 350m (factory 130gr .308 data)
Left - Unfired for comparison
Centre - Ballistic Gel (NATO 20%)
Right - Clay
Attachments
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Yes. Of course. Why not?
The 350m (equivalent) ballistic gel performance in that bullet looks good. It is interesting to see the variability between tests (ref @Odders ' mate's tests on the other thread). That variability worries me.
For the time being, I am going to wait for the manufacturers to improve things.
Kind regards,
Carl
You will always get variability when tests are conducted using different terminal media...as you will on every single shot in the field due to the variables involved with shot placement, carcase orientation, variable range etc etc
Forestry Rangers tend not to use .243 believe .270 is standard issue for them.
For .243 fans like you and I well to be blunt we are F@@@ed.
In Scotland we need to use 100 gr for anything bigger than roe .243 with a 1 in 10 twist won't stabilise copper or so they
say.
Lead will be fazed out so where does that leave us change of rifle ? that depends on your circumstances I suppose
for me I am a big fan of .243 in my job as a stalker I had the opportunity to shoot many different calibers ( estate rifles)
but always came back to .243.
So for the time being I will stick with my .243.
I am 70 years of age my .243 is approximately 40 years old and I believe we have five
years to make the change I have no wish to change my rifle if I was a younger man no doubt I would but not at this stage
in life .
Will continue as I am until I either die,become unable to stalk, the use of lead becomes
illegal or AGHEs no longer except carcasses shot with lead which ever comes first!?
At which time I will call it a day.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Yes. I agree. I think I was hoping for some good news from the mono world and @Odders brought me back down to earth. The results in his friend's test make these a no-go for me.
However, I will keep watching for some more positive results, if and when the manufacturers do more development.
A 80/85 grain monolithic bullet will perform as well as a 100 grain cup and core or bonded bullet in the 243.
IF the lead ban in rifle ammo happens then either the powers that be need to adjust the minimum weight issue for Scotland or the 243 will be outlawed.
Here in Norway the rules are not up to date with the bullet development. For roe, no problem, but for large game we have the 243 problem with the 6.5x55.
Here the minimum bullet weight for large game is 139 grains, even though a .264" 120 TTSX is equal or better in effect than a 140/156 grain bullet( as long as it is driven fast enough)
IF the lead ban in rifle ammo happens then either the powers that be need to adjust the minimum weight issue for Scotland or the 243 will be outlawed.
Here in Norway the rules are not up to date with the bullet development. For roe, no problem, but for large game we have the 243 problem with the 6.5x55.
Here the minimum bullet weight for large game is 139 grains, even though a .264" 120 TTSX is equal or better in effect than a 140/156 grain bullet( as long as it is driven fast enough)
Physics keeps getting in the way of that .... but putting that aside, what 'improvements' would you like ?
CarlW
Well-Known Member
That's the pinnacle of bullet performance so you'll be waiting a long time I'm afraid.
I use South African GS Custom bullets and they behave in roughly the same way with incredible performance on deer.
Uncle Norm
Well-Known Member
CarlW
Well-Known Member
I recognise that I am a bit of a stick-in-the-mud when it comes to lead-free; however, those three images do not fit my idea of what a good recovered bullet looks like. They do not look like something I could trust to behave predictably. It might be that I am just stuck in my existing paradigm; however, that's where I am.I'd like not to see images like this one that @Odders ' mate provided...
CarlW. I am clearly missing the point, so sorry for being thick. Could you explain what you mean by your comment please?
I'm guessing he's looking for something with performance more like this? Nosler BTI'd like not to see images like this one that @Odders ' mate provided...
CarlW. I am clearly missing the point, so sorry for being thick. Could you explain what you mean by your comment please?
Or this Nosler Partition
Uncle Norm
Well-Known Member
.
Uncle Norm
Well-Known Member
I have seen standard copper cup bullets so some very strange things. For example a broadside, close range neck shot, turn 90 degrees and exit via the anus, ruining the saddle en route. I bet other members could tell similar tales, however I don't want to derail this informative and interesting thread.
Similar threads
