Lead free shotgun shells

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Magnificent 7

Magnificent 7

Well-Known Member
Earlier today i watched a film by Dave Carrie at Belvoir castle shooting ducks with steel and giving them the big thumbs up.What I did notice is the birds looked a lot lower than his extreme pheasant films and a lot looked to be not killed very cleanly.His videos are watched by millions and in the whole are very well put together but all in all either an advertisement or a plug for one thing or another.This was for Gamebores steel loads and some sporting agent who gave him the day as usual .But here is the question why if these lead free offerings are so good isn’t he doing one on pheasants using lead free alternatives.Has anyone actually used them on proper birds that has no affinity to any cartridge or gun manufacturers ? Where they any good ? I’m genuinely interested in this as the potency of the modern lead alternatives in shotgun sports.
 
Magnificent 7 said:
Earlier today i watched a film by Dave Carrie at Belvoir castle shooting ducks with steel and giving them the big thumbs up.What I did notice is the birds looked a lot lower than his extreme pheasant films and a lot looked to be not killed very cleanly.His videos are watched by millions and in the whole are very well put together but all in all either an advertisement or a plug for one thing or another.This was for Gamebores steel loads and some sporting agent who gave him the day as usual .But here is the question why if these lead free offerings are so good isn’t he doing one on pheasants using lead free alternatives.Has anyone actually used them on proper birds that has no affinity to any cartridge or gun manufacturers ? Where they any good ? I’m genuinely interested in this as the potency of the modern lead alternatives in shotgun sports.
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Best thing is to ask him, he does reply to you tube comments. Like any thing new it takes time to dial in,
look at the amount of "copper" posts with people passing on their findings...
For a man with one eye I think he does very well as he shoots the tits off many with 2.
 
Tim.243 said:
Best thing is to ask him, he does reply to you tube comments. Like any thing new it takes time to dial in,
look at the amount of "copper" posts with people passing on their findings...
For a man with one eye I think he does very well as he shoots the tits off many with 2.
Click to expand...
Already asked no comment as yet
 
Magnificent 7 said:
Earlier today i watched a film by Dave Carrie at Belvoir castle shooting ducks with steel and giving them the big thumbs up.What I did notice is the birds looked a lot lower than his extreme pheasant films and a lot looked to be not killed very cleanly.His videos are watched by millions and in the whole are very well put together but all in all either an advertisement or a plug for one thing or another.This was for Gamebores steel loads and some sporting agent who gave him the day as usual .But here is the question why if these lead free offerings are so good isn’t he doing one on pheasants using lead free alternatives.Has anyone actually used them on proper birds that has no affinity to any cartridge or gun manufacturers ? Where they any good ? I’m genuinely interested in this as the potency of the modern lead alternatives in shotgun sports.
Click to expand...

Steel shot works within it’s ballistic capabilities, by that i mean going up two shot sizes to compensate for its lack of mass, to deliver equivalent energy to lead downrange, however the larger diameter comes at a cost as it slows quicker than the two sizes smaller lead shot would. hence its use on extreme pheasant, say 60, 70 or 80 yards would not be my first choice. Their is a CIP limit on momentum and hence velocity so a limit on muzzle velocity and unlike bullets it’s BC can not be improved on by shape.
It is also only useful in 12ga, 16ga and 20ga, given the need to increase shot size and hence pellets in the pattern are less which becomes an issue for the small gauge guns. Then the added issue of biodegradable wads for any gauge other than 12 and 20 small gauge guns remain popular.

For extreme pheasant, as for some wild fowling then tungsten based shot with a density greater than lead will probably be used, yes it is expensive but if you can afford the type of shooting Dave does then the cost of the cartridges should not matter respect for the quarry should.
 
Liveonce said:
Steel shot works within it’s ballistic capabilities, by that i mean going up two shot sizes to compensate for its lack of mass, to deliver equivalent energy to lead downrange, however the larger diameter comes at a cost as it slows quicker than the two sizes smaller lead shot would. hence its use on extreme pheasant, say 60, 70 or 80 yards would not be my first choice. Their is a CIP limit on momentum and hence velocity so a limit on muzzle velocity and unlike bullets it’s BC can not be improved on by shape.
It is also only useful in 12ga, 16ga and 20ga, given the need to increase shot size and hence pellets in the pattern are less which becomes an issue for the small gauge guns. Then the added issue of biodegradable wads for any gauge other than 12 and 20 small gauge guns remain popular.

For extreme pheasant, as for some wild fowling then tungsten based shot with a density greater than lead will probably be used, yes it is expensive but if you can afford the type of shooting Dave does then the cost of the cartridges should not matter respect for the quarry should.
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Agreed respect for the quarry is paramount I would just be interested to see a film using these steel offerings on decent birds the ducks were average at best tbh
 
Magnificent 7 said:
Agreed respect for the quarry is paramount I would just be interested to see a film using these steel offerings on decent birds the ducks were average at best tbh
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likewise provided the guns used are not 3.5inch magnum autos shooting heavy payloads of BB steel shot, but rather traditional english game guns.

edited to add, steel shot is only really being seen as the ways forward due to cost, if an alternative equivalent or better was available at the same price point steel shot would be history.
Some developments are continuing to look at Bismuth shot, for game shooting, again expensive but can be used with traditional fibre wads.
 
Liveonce said:
likewise provided the guns used are not 3.5inch magnum autos shooting heavy payloads of BB steel shot, but rather traditional english game guns.
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I see browning are now offering over and unders in this chambering I wonder if that’s there thinking
 
Tugmanade said:
I can remember watching a YouTube video where he stood there & slagged off non-lead shot, saying how rubbish it was & how wrong it was that lead was being banned. The manufacturers have crossed his palm with silver then I assume. :-|
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He is hardly going to bite the hand that feeds him that would be the free cartridges and free shooting gone he will say what they want to please them I watched one video where he bulled a shoot up that’s pure dog Shxt
 
Watched the video, seems quite effective to me, some of those ducks seemed plenty rangey enough! My biggest reservation about steel is chomping down on a piece of shot, bad enough with lead but don’t fancy the dentist bill with steel! Would need to be very carefully prepped for my liking!
 
deerstalker.308 said:
Watched the video, seems quite effective to me, some of those ducks seemed plenty rangey enough! My biggest reservation about steel is chomping down on a piece of shot, bad enough with lead but don’t fancy the dentist bill with steel! Would need to be very carefully prepped for my liking!
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Ducks are a controversial subject tbh I’ve done it and tbh i now find it a bit distasteful but each to there own but these were mediocre to say the least.Birds always seem a long way up on film too.
 
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Magnificent 7 said:
Ducks are a controversial subject tbh I’ve done it and tbh i now find it a bit distasteful but each to there own but these were mediocre to say the least.Birds always seem a long way up on film too.
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I’ve never been a fan of duck when they’re not truly wild, the way they just keep circling to come back to the water, not the best sport to be honest but sometimes fun for a change I guess.
 
Just a couple of points which some posters seem unaware of
3.5 in o/u and sbs guns are widely available and have been so for many years now. The recoil is heavy but no more so than the 1 7/8 and even 2 oz loads which some of us used to favour. There is an increasing feeling among fowlers that 3 in are adequate as cartridges have improved over what is now many years of NTS use.
High end ultra dense tungsten loads - up to TSS 18 - can be incredibly effective but will always be an expensive sideshow as the price if tungsten has gone sky high since ITM shot was first launched. Steel loads do work and many of the younger generation of fowlers use nothing else.

Reared ducks ? Experienced this once and I might as well have used a tennis raquet.
 
My friend Duncan Lawton had a day testing Hull cartridge standard steel on pheasants last season.
He said they did ok and out of the choices of #5&#4 shot he and others agreed that #4 definitely was the size to use.
 
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