Leaving - days to go

[Rewulf]

I’ve asked this quite a few times the various times this has come up, and never had a concrete answer other than nebulous chest thumping about sovereignty and very poorly informed ranting about immigration.

Thats because youre a committed Europhile/remainer , who flatly refuses STILL, to accept that this is the will of the British people.
I really dont think it would matter what answers you got, you will just keep waving your starry flag and ranting about , poorly educated , gammon faced , xenophobes

It will get you no where, its over , and we are out of it.
Time to suck it up and accept it.

 

[dartmoordog]

Rather than the fact most the members on here are just old enough to have been born in the baby boom and reap all the economic benefits of the post work war boom and globalisation but now seem over the moon to see the country burn for the "benefit" of their children and grand children who are already the first generation to be worse off than their parents but some how this is a good thing because we have it "too easy".

Economic benefits of post war Britain!.......You really believe that total garbage don’t you, it is the biggest load of utter rubbish. Get real, it is an idiotic statement.

I am a baby boomer, my mum had to cut the soles off her shoes and stick them onto mine, so I could go to school without wet feet.

I left school at 16, my parents needed me to contribute, and have worked ever since, never had a day out of work in my adult life. I have a lovely three bedroom, detached bungalow nestling in the Dartmoor National Park in the amazing county of Devon, money in the bank, a new car, a pick up truck, cabinet full of hobby items, exotic holidays every year, all bought and paid for by my wife and I. Do we deserve it now we are older.............Too bloody right we do!

No inheritance, my folks were council estate people. I have NEVER taken a penny from the state, but boy, have I paid into it, and a pension scheme since I was 22, keeping us broke for years.

Strangely, my two, grown up, children and grandchildren will benefit HUGELY from our estate when we peg it, from our graft, work and commitment. We had NO, ZERO, ZILCH inheritance.

Economic benefits my arse, your talking total cr*p........But you believe it!

 

[Mungo]

Thats because youre a committed Europhile/remainer , who flatly refuses STILL, to accept that this is the will of the British people.
I really dont think it would matter what answers you got, you will just keep waving your starry flag and ranting about , poorly educated , gammon faced , xenophobes

It will get you no where, its over , and we are out of it.
Time to suck it up and accept it.

I have accepted that it’s happening.

I have yet to see any evidence that it will make life anything but worse.

To say it was the will of the people is misleading - very, very few campaigned for a No Deal Brexit, and people like Boris consistently and explicitly promised that little would change with regard to the economic relationship.

The tragedy of this is that Brexit was never clearly defined, so people voted for whatever version appealed to them. That lack of definition has been a large part of the problem ever since - there has never been a big enough majority with a clear idea of what they wanted or how to get it.

Of course ultimately there were and are only ever two stable states: all the way in or all the way out. We’re headed all the way out. And we will be substantially poorer for a long time because of it. No amount of flag waving, Union Jack flavoured wishful thinking and thinly veiled racism will change that.

 

[dartmoordog]

nun_hunter. Yes, it was a rant, I am not apologising for it. But apart from criticising my gundog, don’t ever do that, there is nothing that riles me up more than the younger generation telling me how easy I’ve had it, and them bitching on about how tough it is paying £69pm for the latest iPhone, and Exeter Uni students having to buy meals in Spoons, then leave them untouched, just so they can have a few beers.......Poor things

 

[Fair Hill]

Is Boris so unprepared that he has dispatched the Royal Navy to police our fishing waters........or could this be Boris being prepared for a definite no deal ?

Mercal and Macron........there’s an old saying that springs to mind and find very apt....... “all you get from a pig is a grunt” ! Oh that should have been plural......

Keep A Look Out........for the vast fleets of European fishing boats descending on your lrish fishing waters after all Ireland is part of the EU.........share and share alike......

This is in response to Fair Hill‘s post at #135

There's another old saying about pigs too that says the only part of one you can't eat is the grunt.

The vast fleets of European fishing boats you are warning about have been in our waters officially since 1973 and in reality long before that, a lot of those boats would be from the UK too it is worth remembering. The fishing industry has been a casualty of our joining the EU but we have had massive benefits in other areas of industry.

We have had massive investment from the EU in road infrastructure which has enabled us to prosper in exports and tourism, agriculture has benefited on a mammoth scale as has education and training.

When the global economic crisis hit in 2008 we would have been goosed only for the bail out from the EU, with their help we recovered quickly and are now one of the fastest growing economies in the EU.

They have opened doors all over the world for us to export goods that has resulted in creating thousands of jobs, the list goes on and on and the advantages for us of being a member of EU far outweigh any negatives in the bigger picture.

I did a bit of work one time in the home of one of the biggest fish wholesalers in Munster, I've been interested in fishing all my life so we got on great. He'd buy from all the main ports and knew everyone worth knowing in the game, he asked me one day to guess the busiest fishing port in Ireland and after two or three guesses I had to give up and ask him which one was it. He told me it was Cork Airport. he told me he picks up the phone and orders cod of a certain size say for example 2-4lbs only, and when he places that order the cod are swimming in the sea around Norway. The following morning his trucks are collecting what he ordered at Cork airport and distributing it for the day.

For an island nation with perfect breeding grounds for fish we should be harvesting a lot more than we do but it's not such a big industry as it once was but that's not solely because of quota's, the volume of fish are not there anymore. I know men in the village here who were part of the seine boats that netted salmon that were waiting to enter the local rivers and they would often net more than 500 in a day. This is just in our village alone and every other village along the coast had seine boats that were catching the same amount or even more. Herring fishing was another massive employer and a huge source of income for coastal villages but they're just not there anymore.

Climate change is having an effect as well, we're getting species showing up in the nets and pots that would have been very rare not so long ago. Two weeks ago there was large pods of dolphins spotted in a feeding frenzy off the Kerry coast, the lads changed to small nets and hauled in over 2,000 tonnes of anchovies. That's an awful lot of anchovies, most will probably be turned into animal feed by now.

 

[Ade8mm]

Not particularly worked up. More fascinated by your logic.

Curious that your answer to my original question about how we will be better off after Jan 1 consisted of a mix of apocalyptic doomcasting and ad hominem attacks on me. Nothing substantive at all.

Speaks volumes, really...

Quote ; "ad-hominem attacks on me"

"ad-hominem attack" if you must

Just "ad-hominem" is better.

"argumentum ad-hominem " is best

 

[Rewulf]

I have accepted that it’s happening.

Then sit back and relax, no need for all these negative waves man

I have yet to see any evidence that it will make life anything but worse.

What evidence have you seen that it will ?
The pages of the indy and guardian are not evidence BTW

To say it was the will of the people is misleading - very, very few campaigned for a No Deal Brexit, and people like Boris consistently and explicitly promised that little would change with regard to the economic relationship.

Remainers have had 4.5 YEARS to overturn the 2016 vote, youve tried everything in the book , and then some.
You seriously believe if it wasnt really the will of the people, we would be here now ?
THATS delusional.

The tragedy of this is that Brexit was never clearly defined, so people voted for whatever version appealed to them. That lack of definition has been a large part of the problem ever since - there has never been a big enough majority with a clear idea of what they wanted or how to get it.

Of course ultimately there were and are only ever two stable states: all the way in or all the way out. We’re headed all the way out. And we will be substantially poorer for a long time because of it. No amount of flag waving, Union Jack flavoured wishful thinking and thinly veiled racism will change that.

Despite not being clearly defined , we voted out.
Despite all the threats of what would happen WHEN we voted out.
Despite the vast majority of the media trying to change our minds.
Despite Mays attempt to sell us out.
Despite labours attempt to stall , and force its voters into remain.
Despite 2 elections, where we confirmed we still wanted out.
Despite the fact theres a good risk of short term pain, we have democratically confirmed we STILL want out.
Why are you grasping at the idea that its a tragedy , a mistake ?
Is it because you still think that if people dont think like you , they are stupid ?
That was the remainers first mistake, and they still havent learned from it.

 

[nun_hunter]

Economic benefits of post war Britain!.......You really believe that total garbage don’t you, it is the biggest load of utter rubbish. Get real, it is an idiotic statement.

I am a baby boomer, my mum had to cut the soles off her shoes and stick them onto mine, so I could go to school without wet feet.

I left school at 16, my parents needed me to contribute, and have worked ever since, never had a day out of work in my adult life. I have a lovely three bedroom, detached bungalow nestling in the Dartmoor National Park in the amazing county of Devon, money in the bank, a new car, a pick up truck, cabinet full of hobby items, exotic holidays every year, all bought and paid for by my wife and I. Do we deserve it now we are older.............Too bloody right we do!

No inheritance, my folks were council estate people. I have NEVER taken a penny from the state, but boy, have I paid into it, and a pension scheme since I was 22, keeping us broke for years.

Strangely, my two, grown up, children and grandchildren will benefit HUGELY from our estate when we peg it, from our graft, work and commitment. We had NO, ZERO, ZILCH inheritance.

Economic benefits my arse, your talking total cr*p........But you believe it!

My dad bought his house on a comparatively worse wage than me now and it was 2.5 times his salary. My house is smaller than his on less land and yet cost me almost 8 times my salary butnin a similar area. You're telling me I will have it easy or he has less disposable income than me? I pay my taxes and nearly 14% into a pension so I'm not shirking my responsibilities and with life expectancy going up I'll not benefit from his estate when I'm 65 and retirement is something still years away for me. At least I can pass his estate and assets on to my kids who will have pretty much no hope of ever owning their own home or a comfortable life but at least they'll have their "sovereignty" to keep them happy

 

[dartmoordog]

My dad bought his house on a comparatively worse wage than me now and it was 2.5 times his salary. My house is smaller than his on less land and yet cost me almost 8 times my salary butnin a similar area. You're telling me I will have it easy or he has less disposable income than me? I pay my taxes and nearly 14% into a pension so I'm not shirking my responsibilities and with life expectancy going up I'll not benefit from his estate when I'm 65 and retirement is something still years away for me. At least I can pass his estate and assets on to my kids who will have pretty much no hope of ever owning their own home or a comfortable life but at least they'll have their "sovereignty" to keep them happy

Good on you, but don’t come out with this baby boomer, had it so good, crap, because that’s what it is, total crap.

 

[Mick9abf]

I’ve asked this quite a few times the various times this has come up, and never had a concrete answer other than nebulous chest thumping about sovereignty and very poorly informed ranting about immigration.

Not being part of their ‘Level Playing Field’ for a start, hence the reason the EU are so terrified of a competitor who has been part of the block outstripping them as others will no doubt follow.

If you dig around enough regarding their Covid fiscal policy and how and who is going to pay it back and what the tax implications are it seems to me we couldn’t have got out at a better time.

 

[nun_hunter]

Good on you, but don’t come out with this baby boomer, had it so good, crap, because that’s what it is, total crap.

Buying a house was an option for pretty much everyone who had a job that's far from the case now, the economy was constantly growing and wages were rising too. I'm not saying people didn't have to work hard but if you did it paid off and you could have a very comfortable life. Now that's just not the case. There are "affordable homes" springing up everywhere near me, starting prices are usually around £350k (that's often for a 2 bed semi on the estates without social housing) but the average wage is still sub £30k you can't tell me that it wasn't "easier" 40 years ago to buy a house, start a family and have a more secure and comfortable future.

 

[kenbro]

There’s a few on here I would like to see fcuk off to anywhere else to live, instead of keep doing our Country down.
You still can’t abide by losing the referendum!

France sounds exciting for some.
Ken.

 

[Rewulf]

Buying a house was an option for pretty much everyone who had a job that's far from the case now, the economy was constantly growing and wages were rising too. I'm not saying people didn't have to work hard but if you did it paid off and you could have a very comfortable life. Now that's just not the case. There are "affordable homes" springing up everywhere near me, starting prices are usually around £350k (that's often for a 2 bed semi on the estates without social housing) but the average wage is still sub £30k you can't tell me that it wasn't "easier" 40 years ago to buy a house, start a family and have a more secure and comfortable future.

The only possible connection that could have with the thread subject , is the fact that demand for housing has pushed prices up.
And why is there a demand for housing ?
Try nearly 4 million extra EU citizens who due to free movement now reside here.

Guess what too , they are that terrified of Brexit , and how much this country is going to suffer without being able to suckle on the EU teat, that only 3.8 million of them have applied for permanent residency.

 

[McKenzie]

The only possible connection that could have with the thread subject , is the fact that demand for housing has pushed prices up.
And why is there a demand for housing ?
Try nearly 4 million extra EU citizens who due to free movement now reside here.

Guess what too , they are that terrified of Brexit , and how much this country is going to suffer without being able to suckle on the EU teat, that only 3.8 million of them have applied for permanent residency.

Many of them will just be keeping options open; if it doesn't work out for them they will still have the option of returning home.

 

[Mungo]

There’s a few on here I would like to see fcuk off to anywhere else to live, instead of keep doing our Country down.
You still can’t abide by losing the referendum!

France sounds exciting for some.
Ken.

Not doing the country down.

Asking for concrete evidence that we are going to be better off.

Quote ; "ad-hominem attacks on me"

"ad-hominem attack" if you must

Just "ad-hominem" is better.

"argumentum ad-hominem " is best

I hang my head in shame.

 

[dartmoordog]

Buying a house was an option for pretty much everyone who had a job that's far from the case now, the economy was constantly growing and wages were rising too. I'm not saying people didn't have to work hard but if you did it paid off and you could have a very comfortable life. Now that's just not the case. There are "affordable homes" springing up everywhere near me, starting prices are usually around £350k (that's often for a 2 bed semi on the estates without social housing) but the average wage is still sub £30k you can't tell me that it wasn't "easier" 40 years ago to buy a house, start a family and have a more secure and comfortable future.

You not going to tell me that my kids and grandkids are not going to benefit from me, they will have far, far more than I ever had.

 

[nun_hunter]

nun_hunter. Yes, it was a rant, I am not apologising for it. But apart from criticising my gundog, don’t ever do that, there is nothing that riles me up more than the younger generation telling me how easy I’ve had it, and them bitching on about how tough it is paying £69pm for the latest iPhone, and Exeter Uni students having to buy meals in Spoons, then leave them untouched, just so they can have a few beers.......Poor things

Yes what you say about the younger generation is true but part of it is to ask why?

If you can't afford to get a mortgage and your disposable income is only £400 a month it'd take a life time just to save a deposit (which with house prices rising wouldn't then be enough of a deposit after the 20 years of saving anyway) so there is no point, you may as well enjoy it and spend it.

I'd love a hand made double rifle but it would take me decades to save and I'd not have any money for any other hobbies. I may as well set my sights lower and save for a new Howa 1500 and then go out and enjoy it and have some spare cash in the mean time.

I remember my dad telling me to spend 1/3 of my wage on accomodation, 1/3 save and the other 1/3 on bills/food/socialising/hobbies/holidays etc. My mortgage alone is 60% of my take home, the rest goes on bills, food, car etc leaving about 5% to save. There isn't any point trying to save any more, it'd be like trying to fill a bathtub with a pipette and it'd mean I wouldn't be living my life.

You not going to tell me that my kids and grandkids are not going to benefit from me, they will have far, far more than I ever had.

They'll get more from you than you got from your parents and they'll have better medical care (well potentially), better technology, better life expectancy so it's not all bad news so don't take me as a moaner. I know I'll have much better things than my parents had but it's the life they had and better economic security I won't have. Personally I feel that would have been better for me staying in the EU.

 

[dartmoordog]

Yes what you say about the younger generation is true but part of it is to ask why?

If you can't afford to get a mortgage and your disposable income is only £400 a month it'd take a life time just to save a deposit (which with house prices rising wouldn't then be enough of a deposit after the 20 years of saving anyway) so there is no point, you may as well enjoy it and spend it.

I guess that’s why nowadays they don’t blink about spending £25K plus on a wedding! Poor little things.

 

[Heym SR20]

There’s a few on here I would like to see fcuk off to anywhere else to live, instead of keep doing our Country down.
You still can’t abide by losing the referendum!

France sounds exciting for some.
Ken.

Many if us would love to F off elsewhere.

But BREXIT has removed that possibility for the vast majority of us. So I am afraid you are now stuck with us and you only have yourselves to blame.

 

[User00025]

Not particularly worked up. More fascinated by your logic.

Curious that your answer to my original question about how we will be better off after Jan 1 consisted of a mix of apocalyptic doomcasting and ad hominem attacks on me. Nothing substantive at all.

Speaks volumes, really...

The only volumes I speak are now in the larder, awaiting attention. Well the deer are black ones too, oh dear. that may upset you.