Can sadly only agree, but I can honestly say since COVID I do shop around more & don’t mind paying more if things are made/imported from somewhere other than China, doesn’t always work out but I do try, as I’m sure a lot of people are doing now.
MANKIND'S SUICIDE
- Thread starter sakoson
- Start date
When David Attenburgh started making wildlife films there were 2.7 billion humans on the planet. He's still making films and now there are 8 billion. What better evidence do we need that this is about population? The age of man is an anthropological catastrophe.
How can anyone say with a straight face that this is a socio/economic lifestyle problem that can be solved at a political level by tweaking what we eat or what we drive? Insulating your loft, voting Green and buying a plug-in car isn't going to cut it.
How can anyone say with a straight face that this is a socio/economic lifestyle problem that can be solved at a political level by tweaking what we eat or what we drive? Insulating your loft, voting Green and buying a plug-in car isn't going to cut it.
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alberta boy
Well-Known Member
Not to be a downer , but what we do , or don't do , is largely irrelevant . We are over populated and our resources are getting diminished , driving an electric vehicle won't change that . Reducing our use of fossil fuels only makes a difference if everyone does it , and a large percentage of the world doesn't care to . As an example , if Canada were to stop using any fossil fuels , as in zero emissions , it would be cancelled out by the amount of new coal burning power plants currently being built in China within one year . Climate change is a major concern in western society , the rest of the world , where I spend a lot of time , isn't concerned . Deck chairs on the Titanic .
On a more positive note , the earth will be fine , it did bounce back after the Dinosaur killer slammed into it , unfortunately the dinosaurs didn't . More than likely we will probably endure an old school " Biblical " pandemic . That's what nature does with any species of animal ( most humans forget that we are ) that over populates . Covid 19 is a serious pandemic , but pales into insignificance when compared to the Spanish flu , Plague or Ebola . Artificially high population densities are what virus' evolved to take advantage of . In short , nature will do what it's always done , bad news is , it'll do it to us .
The other scenario is we go to war over above mentioned resources . There have already been conflicts over water in some countries , and we've already fought many wars over oil . Imagine what we'll do to each other when food and water gets low . The seas are over fished and world stocks are dropping , we lose huge amounts of arable land every year to desertification .......... and yet we keep breeding and consuming . What ever is going to happen , will happen , it's vanity to assume we will change it , we're past that point . Personally , I don't despair over it , it is , after all , evolution at work . That's a crap shoot at best . About the only thing that would make a tangible difference would be a drastic reduction in the human population , which will happen one way or the other . Our ancestors understood and revered the natural world , we worshipped it's many manifestations throughout our history . It seems the vast majority of humanity has forgotten why we lived in awe of the natural world , we're due for a reminder . Sorry brother , but you asked .
AB
Hardwired I think, too Apex..
Looks like the world population is on the decline
Population Growth
Explore global and national data on population growth, demography, and how they are changing.ourworldindata.org
No, growth is slowing, that is not the same as decline
By buying Musk’s electric cars, you are simply financing his real dream of escaping the inevitable and goofing off to Mars.
In all seriousness those of you that are contemplating buying electric cars need to look at the raw materials that go into the manufacturing of the batteries, where those raw materials come from and how much more of those raw materials will be required to achieve Tesla’s production promise into the future.
We have a massive hypocrisy happening right in the middle of our society with this “electric cars to save the world!” nonsense.
Huge mining complexes will be required to provide the nickel needed for Tesla’s projections. Complexes mining finite resources in difficult places, at great cost, with all the attendant issues with nasty chemicals and processing emissions. Fancy running a heavy equipment mining fleet on batteries? Really?
Enviro-nutter Green Party voters love huge mining complexes, don’t they.
This is why even mining magnates are financing urgent R&D into green hydrogen. They know the whole Tesla / electric car promotion is a hopeless fiasco.
This battery powered car clanger is just one of the useless, knee jerk band aids that will be looked at by history as “yeah, nice try but nah...” History will judge us extremely harshly, because we aren’t going to be able to switch off carbon emissions with anything remotely close to the 2050 doomsday-avoiding prerequisites. Not even close. It’s too late already, for the majority of humans.
The (extraordinary) technologies that will become mainstream this decade are going to make the last 20 years feel like we were hardly moving. But these advances will serve only the young, educated, clever types as their efforts switch from trying to avoid climate catastrophe, to using technology to deal with it and keep them alive. Which if you think about it, is fair enough. They are the ones with the smarts, the nous, so in the hyper-tech age they will be the fittest that survive. Darwin’s principles will perpetuate, just with an army of artificial intelligence to help them on their way.
The rest of us? Enjoy life, try not to worry about it, you’re insignificant and soon enough you’ll be dead.
In all seriousness those of you that are contemplating buying electric cars need to look at the raw materials that go into the manufacturing of the batteries, where those raw materials come from and how much more of those raw materials will be required to achieve Tesla’s production promise into the future.
We have a massive hypocrisy happening right in the middle of our society with this “electric cars to save the world!” nonsense.
Huge mining complexes will be required to provide the nickel needed for Tesla’s projections. Complexes mining finite resources in difficult places, at great cost, with all the attendant issues with nasty chemicals and processing emissions. Fancy running a heavy equipment mining fleet on batteries? Really?
Enviro-nutter Green Party voters love huge mining complexes, don’t they.
This is why even mining magnates are financing urgent R&D into green hydrogen. They know the whole Tesla / electric car promotion is a hopeless fiasco.
This battery powered car clanger is just one of the useless, knee jerk band aids that will be looked at by history as “yeah, nice try but nah...” History will judge us extremely harshly, because we aren’t going to be able to switch off carbon emissions with anything remotely close to the 2050 doomsday-avoiding prerequisites. Not even close. It’s too late already, for the majority of humans.
The (extraordinary) technologies that will become mainstream this decade are going to make the last 20 years feel like we were hardly moving. But these advances will serve only the young, educated, clever types as their efforts switch from trying to avoid climate catastrophe, to using technology to deal with it and keep them alive. Which if you think about it, is fair enough. They are the ones with the smarts, the nous, so in the hyper-tech age they will be the fittest that survive. Darwin’s principles will perpetuate, just with an army of artificial intelligence to help them on their way.
The rest of us? Enjoy life, try not to worry about it, you’re insignificant and soon enough you’ll be dead.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
I realise my post was a bit grim , so I will throw in an additional thought . The OP refers to Mankinds Suicide . I don't think it will be the end of humanity , but it will be transformative . We've gone through massive changes before and we'll go through it again . Humans are the Cockroach of the primates , we can survive anywhere under the most brutal conditions . I think that's what defines us as a species . Whatever happens , there'll be a few talking , tool using apes left ( present company included lol ) to start over . Maybe we'll do better next time .
AB
AB
Sprocker101
Well-Known Member
At least it seems most of us are on the same page.....for what it’s worth
Crowstalker
Well-Known Member
The world is not over populated there is tons of room left in the world OK the uk is pretty full but that down to open borders for dear knows how long but look at the size of the world and how many places are habitable if you put every person on earth evenly spread out you would have plenty of room.
I don't buy into this climate change band wagon. It's got nothing to do with saving the planet its Marxist and socialist at the heart of it. I am fully on board for looking after our creation and using it in a sustainable way but eating plant based food? Ditching fossil fuels? Making myself bankrupt to drive a battery car? Not have any children? Don't think so
I don't buy into this climate change band wagon. It's got nothing to do with saving the planet its Marxist and socialist at the heart of it. I am fully on board for looking after our creation and using it in a sustainable way but eating plant based food? Ditching fossil fuels? Making myself bankrupt to drive a battery car? Not have any children? Don't think so
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
I can largely agree with what you say , especially the motivation of the left . As to over population , it exists in the sense that , if we want to maintain any untouched areas , without everything going under the plough , then there's too many . I know that I don't want the population density any higher than what it is where I live .
We are over utilising our natural resources , fish stocks are dropping precipitously and in most developing nations , like Brasil , deforestation is accelerating at unsustainable rates . It's not about climate change for me , it's that there are too many humans . Don't get me wrong , I like the humans ..........just from a distance .
AB
liongeorge
Well-Known Member
Hmm so your saying you don't believe it because it doesn't suit you? I agree that what we do personally now will have little effect and is just rearanging deck chairs.Paying for an electric car is sadly going to be the least of our worries with the **** storm we've got coming our way. Sadly the science is quite explicit about climate change and the causes of it and the horrific predictions about our future.
I'm 52 and hopefully I'll be dead before the worst of the implications of overpopulation and climate change occur. I just feel sorry for my children and grandchildren
We have been coming out of an Ice age for the last 10,000 years.....fact
The melted ice seperated us from Europe......fact
Climate change has always been happening......fact
Cliff Erosion has always been happening, and has nothing to do with pollution......fact
If Attenborough came out with these facts, who would want him to make a programme about it?
The melted ice seperated us from Europe......fact
Climate change has always been happening......fact
Cliff Erosion has always been happening, and has nothing to do with pollution......fact
If Attenborough came out with these facts, who would want him to make a programme about it?
I think it’s really important for parents not to transfer miserablism on to their children. Your children are growing up in the UK and not in Mali or Yemen. Why feel sorry for them? If they are smart and apply themselves there will be plenty of opportunities for children born into families that can provide a solid beginning and good education. In just the same way that the generations that have followed history’s horror stories have made the best of the situation and flourished.
I take it that you are not living on the coastal plain in Bangladesh struggling to feed your eight malnourished children meagre gruel? A top tip is for the educated middle-class to force their children to pull their heads out of Facebook / Instagram / Tiktok etc and sort their futures out. It helps if parents don’t whine about how dire their future is going to be, God knows the average teenager is having a tough time seeing light at the end of the tunnel right now. It’s almost as if we are conditioning them to die young.
Our kids need to be told to get on with the business of life come what may, and stop looking for so many reasons to be miserable and pointing the fingers of blame. Their biggest problem is the self-serving crap they are consuming on their devices, its like they are wilfully participating in their own brainwashing!
Those that adapt first, will win. More Darwinism.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
I personally decided some years ago I would best contribute to the effort by not contributing to the problem. I knew then, and do still know it’s a futile gesture, but it was also a harmless gesture, all things considered. Still....
I think it’s more about the depletion of resources (clean air, groundwater, for example) as much as overpopulation, it is estimated that the population will level out at around 11 billion before the end of the century, though the resources will continue to deplete.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
Regarding overpopulation and Climate Change we tend to mass the population around coastal rivers, and these are more prone to bad weather, coastal erosion, which eventually turns the flatlands into flood plains, and behold now and again they flood, times are changing, and if you look at the map, there is plenty of room inland, the population needs to be more spread out, this will releive the effects of pollution, allow a more balanced infrastructure, etc, An Example regarding population, the UK land mass is about 95,000 sq miles, for 67 million people,and about 12% is urbanised. New Mexico is 122,000 sq miles, and has a population of 1.8 million people, a lot of desert and mountains, but these could equate to what we have in the Highlands, Heathlands etc. many of the US States have very little population, France is well over twice the size of the UK and has roughly the same population.
So its basically the distribution thats the problem not the number.
We cannot support the amount of people here, and the lack of management of our resources especially the water flow, means that floods will become the norm, unless we start removing the silt from the rivers and streams to allow the water to flow in a controlled manner, we may even be able to control its use more efficiently.
Buying electric cars, doing away with gas supply,everything running on electricity ...........well the question has to be have we got the capacity for it?...................the answer is we dont have the capacity, so they are not the answer.
There are funny enough plenty of things we can do.............close all shops on a Sunday.............less pollution.
Put a large surcharge on goods bought on the internet.....................less vans doing deliveries,more local shopping, which happens normally so no extra travel, etc.
Turn off street lighting between 2am-8am
Cut out the use of all plastics
Lots of little things that will all add up to less pollution.
etc, etc, etc
So its basically the distribution thats the problem not the number.
We cannot support the amount of people here, and the lack of management of our resources especially the water flow, means that floods will become the norm, unless we start removing the silt from the rivers and streams to allow the water to flow in a controlled manner, we may even be able to control its use more efficiently.
Buying electric cars, doing away with gas supply,everything running on electricity ...........well the question has to be have we got the capacity for it?...................the answer is we dont have the capacity, so they are not the answer.
There are funny enough plenty of things we can do.............close all shops on a Sunday.............less pollution.
Put a large surcharge on goods bought on the internet.....................less vans doing deliveries,more local shopping, which happens normally so no extra travel, etc.
Turn off street lighting between 2am-8am
Cut out the use of all plastics
Lots of little things that will all add up to less pollution.
etc, etc, etc
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