Marksmanship Standards

So I was at a range today that shall remain nameless as it's not about the range but the shooters. It is primarily used by stalkers and vermin shooters. I have a pretty miserable view of stalkers shooting abilities generally but after today I have to question the availability of a FAC without a firearms competency test.

The target area is surrounded by a 5'+ square of timber which was peppered with bullet holes. Some very large bullet holes. Not ones that are being shot at bunnies. Fortunately for them, the shooters are nameless but such was the number of negligent discharges (3' 4' and maybe even more, cannot be considered anything else) that these people represent a danger to the rest of us, either physically or that they do something like that out stalking and somebody catches a bullet with the inevitable firearms law review.

Clearly these people don't know (or perhaps care) about bore sighting a rifle and don't know what to do if a shot does not appear on the target.

I hear all the stuff about maintaining our freedoms so no compulsory training, tests etc however after that today I am afraid I have changed my mind. Freedoms only survive if people are responsible enough to make sure they are competent and operate safely. Clearly not everybody is, or cares, and that is the environment where more legislation will appear eventually.

I now am coming to the view that the DSC1 shooting test is inadequate. It should include mounting and zeroing a scope with bore sighting. That is a basic skill. I am also coming the view that if DSC2 is supposed to demonstrate competence then it should include shooting test to a much higher level ie out to 300 yards prone and equivalent off sticks etc. At the moment you can whack a deer at 50 yards and are deemed be fully competent. Eh naw.

Most of you will disagree with me, but you did not see what I did. If someone was shooting like that on a range with me I would be off home quick.
 
So I was at a range today that shall remain nameless as it's not about the range but the shooters. It is primarily used by stalkers and vermin shooters. I have a pretty miserable view of stalkers shooting abilities generally but after today I have to question the availability of a FAC without a firearms competency test.

The target area is surrounded by a 5'+ square of timber which was peppered with bullet holes. Some very large bullet holes. Not ones that are being shot at bunnies. Fortunately for them, the shooters are nameless but such was the number of negligent discharges (3' 4' and maybe even more, cannot be considered anything else) that these people represent a danger to the rest of us, either physically or that they do something like that out stalking and somebody catches a bullet with the inevitable firearms law review.

Clearly these people don't know (or perhaps care) about bore sighting a rifle and don't know what to do if a shot does not appear on the target.

I hear all the stuff about maintaining our freedoms so no compulsory training, tests etc however after that today I am afraid I have changed my mind. Freedoms only survive if people are responsible enough to make sure they are competent and operate safely. Clearly not everybody is, or cares, and that is the environment where more legislation will appear eventually.

I now am coming to the view that the DSC1 shooting test is inadequate. It should include mounting and zeroing a scope with bore sighting. That is a basic skill. I am also coming the view that if DSC2 is supposed to demonstrate competence then it should include shooting test to a much higher level ie out to 300 yards prone and equivalent off sticks etc. At the moment you can whack a deer at 50 yards and are deemed be fully competent. Eh naw.

Most of you will disagree with me, but you did not see what I did. If someone was shooting like that on a range with me I would be off home.
Negligent disscharges don't generally happen until in the field. Unless there is a safety issue at the range. What is negligent about the range shots apart from missing? Has the range only got a 10ft back drop or something.
 
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Negligent disscharges don't generally happen until in the field. Unless there is a safety issue at the range. What is negligent about the range shots apart from missing? Has the range only got a 10ft back drop or something.
I know of one guy killed on the range and another badly wounded from negligent discharge so they definitely occur . NG is all about a brain fart and a gun that was supposed to be clear but wasn't ! But there are other times it can occur
What can go wrong when your pulling out of a junction having looked both ways ? Lots! Range backstops can fail or be shot over etc etc . what if its a big backdrop but someone out walking wanders onto it
 
I know of one guy killed on the range and another badly wounded from negligent discharge so they definitely occur . NG is all about a brain fart and a gun that was supposed to be clear but wasn't ! But there are other times it can occur
What can go wrong when your pulling out of a junction having looked both ways ? Lots! Range backstops can fail or be shot over etc etc . what if its a big backdrop but someone out walking wanders onto it
I know negligent discharges happen but like I said and as you described your two examples they are safety issues. From the extremely detailed description the OP posted I am failing to see how missing the target is a negligent discharge. If the operator goes into the field with his gun in the same state then fires it then yes.....that is a negligent disscharge. If someone walks out..safety, if a supposed unloaded firearm goes off..safety, if someones shoots from the hip..safety, if a backdrop fails then that is negligence on a higher level. Missing a target on a range by a few feet is what it is but take that firearm into the field that's a different story.
 
I know negligent discharges happen but like I said and as you described your two examples they are safety issues. From the extremely detailed description the OP posted I am failing to see how missing the target is a negligent discharge. If the operator goes into the field with his gun in the same state then fires it then yes.....that is a negligent disscharge. If someone walks out..safety, if a supposed unloaded firearm goes off..safety, if someones shoots from the hip..safety, if a backdrop fails then that is negligence on a higher level. Missing a target on a range by a few feet is what it is but take that firearm into the field that's a different story.
going some here because we have courts to decide if an act is negligent or not , after the fact . section of a poor backstop or even backdrop ( because backstops in the field are not inspected close up while out "hunting") i should say is negligent. Its then for a court to prove or disprove negligence
 
I know of one guy killed on the range and another badly wounded from negligent discharge so they definitely occur . NG is all about a brain fart and a gun that was supposed to be clear but wasn't ! But there are other times it can occur
What can go wrong when your pulling out of a junction having looked both ways ? Lots! Range backstops can fail or be shot over etc etc . what if its a big backdrop but someone out walking wanders onto it
External persons / animals entering onto a live range is a failure of lookout procedures.
 
going some here because we have courts to decide if an act is negligent or not , after the fact . section of a poor backstop or even backdrop ( because backstops in the field are not inspected close up while out "hunting") i should say is negligent. Its then for a court to prove or disprove negligence
Impossible to compare the two.
 
When the shooter is well wide of the mark (bull) it is generally that they are recoil intolerant and are pulling the trigger quickly "so as to get it done with" often their eyes are shut also.
Take a breath,squeeze and WEAR earmuffs.
 
When the shooter is well wide of the mark (bull) it is generally that they are recoil intolerant and are pulling the trigger quickly "so as to get it done with" often their eyes are shut also.
Take a breath,squeeze and WEAR earmuffs.
Your not wrong, I recently had a young lady out, pretty new to shooting, both eyes shut and snatching the trigger, back to basics and now putting semi reasonable groups together
 
When the shooter is well wide of the mark (bull) it is generally that they are recoil intolerant and are pulling the trigger quickly "so as to get it done with" often their eyes are shut also.
Take a breath,squeeze and WEAR earmuffs.
Partly right, I’ve helped out at a few HCAP assessments and have seen people arrive with newly purchased rifles they’ve never fired but the gun dealer zeroed/bore sighted/collimated for them, I’ve also seen seasoned hunters that didn’t know how to zero a rifle, had never checked and didn’t see why they would need to, and quite a few that just plain could not shoot.
Best yet was the person who arrived with rifle, scope mounts and ammo in their cartons and wanted help to put it all together before the test….I did put it together and zeroed it, but they did the test with a borrowed gun.

However in the case outlined by the OP, the problem is clearly not just poor shooting.
The range procedures ( or lack of them) are permitting shooters onto the firing line without very basic checks.
You can never eliminate all risk, but you do need to address the blindingly bleeding obvious.
Rounds routinely impacting well outside the target area fall into that category.
 
I know of one guy killed on the range and another badly wounded from negligent discharge so they definitely occur . NG is all about a brain fart and a gun that was supposed to be clear but wasn't ! But there are other times it can occur
What can go wrong when your pulling out of a junction having looked both ways ? Lots! Range backstops can fail or be shot over etc etc . what if its a big backdrop but someone out walking wanders onto it
Not knowing which range this thread is all about, do they not have RO’s monitoring what is going on?
At Bisley i have seen people being reprimanded for closing the bolt on a rifle with the muzzle pointing over the top of the sand bank.
We have our own RO’s at the club and if they see any rifle being taken to the firing point without a breech flag clearly visible then you get a kicking.
If the mag is in the rifle then 🤬

We have never had a negligent discharge in all the time we have shot there as a club. It have had a few crappy shots which were off target!!
 
Not knowing which range this thread is all about, do they not have RO’s monitoring what is going on?
At Bisley i have seen people being reprimanded for closing the bolt on a rifle with the muzzle pointing over the top of the sand bank.
We have our own RO’s at the club and if they see any rifle being taken to the firing point without a breech flag clearly visible then you get a kicking.
If the mag is in the rifle then 🤬

We have never had a negligent discharge in all the time we have shot there as a club. It have had a few crappy shots which were off target!!
A very large well known one ! Respectful to current management being unfairly having fingers pointed at them i am not going to name it . Target shooting at clubs is very safe in general but the consequences of a slip up / accident is always there . BTW some clubs actually call off shoots if the ambulance cannot access the ground easily
enough . It often happens that people slip up on occasions as you actually mention seeing the " getting a kicking " which we assume is not literal !
 
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