Miniature Rifle Ranges (MRR)

[Jefgingerbear]

Hi everyone,


Following the legislative changes introduced on May 1st under the Firearms Act 2023 regarding miniature rifle ranges, it appears that both I and the local club I support will need to apply for a Firearms Certificate (FAC) under the Section 11(4) exemption for the continued operation of a miniature rifle range.

I would appreciate your assistance with the following:

1. For those who have recently gone through this process, could you please share your experiences and any practical advice?
2. Does anyone have a sample or draft document that outlines how you demonstrate or define the "safe operation of a miniature rifle range"?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

P.S. – With the greatest respect, I am seeking factual information rather than personal opinions.

 

[bowji john]

Right !

Pull up a chair !!

I too am going through this

I already have and FAC and my renewal coincided with the changes in the regs

No problem thinks I - already have an FAC and as the new requirement largely boils down to an FAC application for those that have run such a range without one …

Then all I require is to notify them

…………..

If you don’t have an FAC then, as a range owner, you will require one to keep running

………

In short order Devon and Cornwall decided that an FAC was not sufficient!!

That now they have decided that a variation is required on an existing FAC

That was still not enough and D &C smartly changed the rules to require a club license application!!!

BASC confirmed that this is bollocks

However- I’m 5 months into the nonsense and have still got nowhere

It appears that firearms units are making things up in order to be as awkward as possible

J

 

[bowji john]

I have a SOP that I’ve developed for my range. I’m not without experience in this field as I’m formerly a chartered safety advisor with 15 years running a range 5 days a week

You will require

insurance in the name of the range
An SOP
Designs of your range and backstops
A risk assessment
Evidence of record keeping
Evidence of lead capture and recovery

I can help with an example of an SOP if you would like one

J

 

[Liveonce]

It appears that firearms units are making things up in order to be as awkward as possible

J

So nothing new for them, in fact business as usual, hopefully the fighting fund may be used to take D&C to court.

 

[bowji john]

So nothing new for them, in fact business as usual, hopefully the fighting fund may be used to take D&C to court.

I’ve lost a considerable amount of revenue as I won’t run the .22 range with out being sure I’m within the law

Effing livid doesn’t get close !!

 

[Jefgingerbear]

I have a SOP that I’ve developed for my range. I’m not without experience in this field as I’m formerly a chartered safety advisor with 15 years running a range 5 days a week

You will require

insurance in the name of the range
An SOP
Designs of your range and backstops
A risk assessment
Evidence of record keeping
Evidence of lead capture and recovery

I can help with an example of an SOP if you would like one

J

Hi

The example of the SOP would be great.

I'll message you with an e-mail address, thank you!!

 

[Liveonce]

I have a SOP that I’ve developed for my range. I’m not without experience in this field as I’m formerly a chartered safety advisor with 15 years running a range 5 days a week

You will require

insurance in the name of the range
An SOP
Designs of your range and backstops
A risk assessment
Evidence of record keeping
Evidence of lead capture and recovery

Why a MRR could be within a shipping container, or pub, a range is now defined as any land with authority to shoot over and liability insurance. No authority inspects private ranges, so who would inspect the the design of the range and backstops.

The MRR change was to ensure control over the firearms as previously any operator of a MRR could use the MRR exemption to acquirer and keep .22lr firearms and ammunition without needing an FAC.

Evidence of lead capture and recovery, prey where is that stated in the MRR charges.

The Firearms Act 2023 introduced a requirement, when commenced, for the operator of a miniature rifle range or a shooting gallery, at which .22 rim-fire calibre firearms are used, to be in possession of a firearm certificate

Firearms Act 2023: miniature rifle ranges

www.gov.uk

it did not introduce the need for lead capture and recovery, or range design to be provided.

 

[bowji john]

Why a MRR could be within a shipping container, or pub, a range is now defined as any land with authority to shoot over and liability insurance. No authority inspects private ranges, so who would inspect the the design of the range and backstops.

The MRR change was to ensure control over the firearms as previously any operator of a MRR could use the MRR exemption to acquirer and keep .22lr firearms and ammunition without needing an FAC.

Agreed

But D and C, as of yesterday, wish to inspect the range

Only though, once I’ve submitted an application for a club cert

Something I have no desire to operate as I have no desire to open it up to some form of club membership

 

[Liveonce]

I am involved with the operation of a zeroing and practice range, we do not operate it as a MRR as do not want to limit the range to .22lr but obviously only persons with an FAC can use the range.

The risk of operating the range is with the operator, not the police.

You can only submit an application for a club cert, if a property constructed club, with officers and a constitution and get Home office approval for the then free club certificate.

You do not need to be a club to operate a MRR or be home office approved.

D&C need a kick up the backside.

 

[Liveonce]

I’ve lost a considerable amount of revenue as I won’t run the .22 range with out being sure I’m within the law

Effing livid doesn’t get close !!

Tell them you are considering legal action for loss of earnings.

Why must we accept such poor treatment by the police, BASC should be all over this if you are a member.

 

[Liveonce]

Hi everyone,


Following the legislative changes introduced on May 1st under the Firearms Act 2023 regarding miniature rifle ranges, it appears that both I and the local club I support will need to apply for a Firearms Certificate (FAC) under the Section 11(4) exemption for the continued operation of a miniature rifle range.

I would appreciate your assistance with the following:

1. For those who have recently gone through this process, could you please share your experiences and any practical advice?
2. Does anyone have a sample or draft document that outlines how you demonstrate or define the "safe operation of a miniature rifle range"?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

P.S. – With the greatest respect, I am seeking factual information rather than personal opinions.

How was the club operating prior to the 2023 MRR legislation? Was it simply as a MRR? Only the operator of the MRR now needs an FAC so probably not you and the Club both need to have a FAC.

The operator of the miniature rifle range or gallery may be the owner with overall operational responsibility for the site or they may be the individual who is responsible for the day-to-day management and operation of the facility. Being the operator of a miniature rifle range or gallery which uses .22 rim-fire calibre firearms can therefore constitute a good reason for a person to be granted a firearm certificate.

 

[bowji john]

Tell them you are considering legal action for loss of earnings.

Why must we accept such poor treatment by the police, BASC should be all over this if you are a member.

I’m a trade member of BASC

They are involved

 

[M@tt]

It appears if the club is operating the MRR then the club (in whose ever name) needs to get the MRR condition on the FAC and the extra firearms/ammo added.
If it is a business then an individual/representative will need to apply for the MRR condition or if already an FAC holder then apply for a variation.
I spoke to the NSRA (one of the MRR governing bodies) and they have heard that many forces are applying the new rules without any guidance in several ways. They even had to apply for an FAC and got one of the ladies in the office to apply.

We're going through this process as well.
After informing our FEO that there is indeed a law change , the FLD decided that I would need to get a variation and as they weren't sure what the process is they would give a grace period until the 1st of August. Forms went in straight away, but still not got the FAC back after several months.

We already have suitable storage, including an explosive storage licence, and a well built range so that aspect never came into it. (
Initially the idea was to ask for x amount of .22rf slots and I'd fill them with the serial numbers etc once issued. When they realised we needed so many they decided it would be better if I send a list of serial numbers and makes and the FAC would be amended to suit - oh, and is there anything extra I would like for my own use.
The ammunition qty is a big sticking point, I would think. We normally order over 100K and need to hold around 200K or more, and it did get a sharp intake of breath when I spoke to the FEO about it. They are not too happy about that, but quantity discount and regular supply is a big factor for a commercial range, even though it is not considered important for private use. And we use a lot of ammunition.
As this is our full-time jobs, continuity is key to staying in business and any delay is not only infringing upon our ability to trade but risking our income stream to an extent that could get serious very quickly. We are lucky in that all the firearms are stored in an onsite RFD armoury.

 

[Jefgingerbear]

How was the club operating prior to the 2023 MRR legislation? Was it simply as a MRR? Only the operator of the MRR now needs an FAC so probably not you and the Club both need to have a FAC.

The operator of the miniature rifle range or gallery may be the owner with overall operational responsibility for the site or they may be the individual who is responsible for the day-to-day management and operation of the facility. Being the operator of a miniature rifle range or gallery which uses .22 rim-fire calibre firearms can therefore constitute a good reason for a person to be granted a firearm certificate.

We were quite unique as we weren't operating like a typical MRR. We used the legislation to allow for us to hold 22LR related activities and matches (PRS and mini-rifle). We had no rifles nor ammunition for sale or rent, the appeal was for people to be able to loan rifles, especially parents with their children who were waiting upon FAC's. We operate everything to a very high standard, passed every inspection, logged attendance/rifle usage, have several RCO's, RO's and UKPSA equivalents....

I'm hoping that my FAC can get a variation for this and we can move on. Right now I am awaiting confirmation on how to proceed.

 

[Jefgingerbear]

We were quite unique as we weren't operating like a typical MRR. We used the legislation to allow for us to hold 22LR related activities and matches (PRS and mini-rifle). We had no rifles nor ammunition for sale or rent, the appeal was for people to be able to loan rifles, especially parents with their children who were waiting upon FAC's. We operate everything to a very high standard, passed every inspection, logged attendance/rifle usage, have several RCO's, RO's and UKPSA equivalents....

I'm hoping that my FAC can get a variation for this and we can move on. Right now I am awaiting confirmation on how to proceed.

Also wondering if it is another, more club specific FAC if I have to get references, medical checks again etc...?

 

[Jefgingerbear]

It appears if the club is operating the MRR then the club (in whose ever name) needs to get the MRR condition on the FAC and the extra firearms/ammo added.
If it is a business then an individual/representative will need to apply for the MRR condition or if already an FAC holder then apply for a variation.
I spoke to the NSRA (one of the MRR governing bodies) and they have heard that many forces are applying the new rules without any guidance in several ways. They even had to apply for an FAC and got one of the ladies in the office to apply.

We're going through this process as well.
After informing our FEO that there is indeed a law change , the FLD decided that I would need to get a variation and as they weren't sure what the process is they would give a grace period until the 1st of August. Forms went in straight away, but still not got the FAC back after several months.

We already have suitable storage, including an explosive storage licence, and a well built range so that aspect never came into it. (
Initially the idea was to ask for x amount of .22rf slots and I'd fill them with the serial numbers etc once issued. When they realised we needed so many they decided it would be better if I send a list of serial numbers and makes and the FAC would be amended to suit - oh, and is there anything extra I would like for my own use.
The ammunition qty is a big sticking point, I would think. We normally order over 100K and need to hold around 200K or more, and it did get a sharp intake of breath when I spoke to the FEO about it. They are not too happy about that, but quantity discount and regular supply is a big factor for a commercial range, even though it is not considered important for private use. And we use a lot of ammunition.
As this is our full-time jobs, continuity is key to staying in business and any delay is not only infringing upon our ability to trade but risking our income stream to an extent that could get serious very quickly. We are lucky in that all the firearms are stored in an onsite RFD armoury.

Where are you based, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[M@tt]

Where are you based, if you don't mind me asking?

BCH police area, East Herts.

 

[Liveonce]

All very confusing, MRR were for an operator to run a .22lr range that allowed others, non FAC holders, general public to shoot, like at schools even in years back pubs.

The concern was the operators could keep firearms and ammunition without going through all the FAC process we do.

 

[M@tt]

And the MRR was never an issue for public safety.

Most small bore clubs were MR clubs years ago but plod got twitchy and offered free FACs to those that wanted them. They initially didn't have slots, but now the whole variation rigmarole if the club needs to buy and sell a rifle. It was a slippery slope that just bought in more beaurocracy for no reason other than control.

It'll happen with shotguns as soon as they get transferred onto a section 1 system.

The already overworked fac system will get so bogged down no one will be able to apply.

 

[8x57]

After being involved in a wide variety of shooting disciplines and shooting sports including rough shooting, stalking, and competition shooting for nearly 50 years. Including in that time starting a H.O. approved rifle and pistol club, and administering two different clubs in the position of club secretary for a total of nearly 30 years I thought that I had gained a reasonable understanding of firearms legislation.

Perhaps I've simply got worn down, or perhaps I've become totally overwhelmed by all the amendments or additional/new firearms legislation and invented rules that I've now got to the point where I understand less and less. Even more I don't understand the logic or reasoning behind most of these changes/ invented rules.
You've got to give it to the bastards they've got apparently unlimited public funds to waste and hoards and hoards of teams working on it full time just to supress all shooting sports in any way they can, and always with the same old chestnut in the interest of public safety (most of it utter tosh).