Mossberg hushpower 410 v 20 bore
- Thread starter pj1
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enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
I'd go with which kills better. The problem is that most UK loaded .410 cartridges...in subsonic loadings...have far too big a shot size. Pattern fails before penetration and that's the problem with British .410 subsonics. The choice of shot size gives a poor pattern.
Chriscotter
Well-Known Member
Personally id opt for the 20 bore if you have a local supply of gamebore hush power. The 20,s pattern allot truer and are more shootable than the somewhat unbalanced .410 offerings. The 20 is allot bulkier but unless your are going poaching somebodies prized ringnecks id discount this fact. I used a Mossberg pump with hushpower in 30g 5s for round the farm and found the combination deadly.
I've no experience of the pump-Hushpowers - but I recently rationalised my Baikal single 12bore (effective, but bulky) and .410 (very handy, but hampered by big shot in the small charge, as ES says) into a Baikal 20bore.
Subsonic 24g 7.5s and 30g 5s both seem to work well for their particlar roles. If just pigeons or squirrels, I'd be happy with the 7.5s, but for rabbit and crow also the 5s have it.
Subsonic 24g 7.5s and 30g 5s both seem to work well for their particlar roles. If just pigeons or squirrels, I'd be happy with the 7.5s, but for rabbit and crow also the 5s have it.
FISH BOY
Well-Known Member
I have a moderated Mossberg 410 and I really enjoy using it. Generally used for barn work where pals will go in with air rifles, with any escaping ferrals covered by me. Doesnt seem to spook the cows nearby.
My pals got the tactical moderated 12 guage, and by heck is it a lump. Totally impractical and way louder than my 410.
Havent used the 20g, but have taken a good number of pigeons, crows and rabbits sub 20m.
Notice your in Kent so if you ever want to try it give me a shout.
My pals got the tactical moderated 12 guage, and by heck is it a lump. Totally impractical and way louder than my 410.
Havent used the 20g, but have taken a good number of pigeons, crows and rabbits sub 20m.
Notice your in Kent so if you ever want to try it give me a shout.
pj1
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your replies and the offer Fish Boy.
The biggest reservation with the 410 is wounding rather than killing. The quietness and the daintyness if that's a word are appealing though. For feral pigeons and collard doves around the farm buildings I think the 410 would be cracking but I do the pest control on farms that are swamped by crows and jackdaws. There's a few bids on YouTube of people taking crows with a 410 and they seem to fold up a treat but more than I would like seem to be hit but make off.
Looking at what cartridges are available in both the 410 and 20. The upper end of the 410 seem to be 18 or 19 gram. The lower in the 20 seem to be 21 gram. Does two or three grams extra provide a much denser pattern or is it to do with the bore just being bigger that helps
The biggest reservation with the 410 is wounding rather than killing. The quietness and the daintyness if that's a word are appealing though. For feral pigeons and collard doves around the farm buildings I think the 410 would be cracking but I do the pest control on farms that are swamped by crows and jackdaws. There's a few bids on YouTube of people taking crows with a 410 and they seem to fold up a treat but more than I would like seem to be hit but make off.
Looking at what cartridges are available in both the 410 and 20. The upper end of the 410 seem to be 18 or 19 gram. The lower in the 20 seem to be 21 gram. Does two or three grams extra provide a much denser pattern or is it to do with the bore just being bigger that helps
The pattern is what kills, and that results from the interplay of the boring of the barrel and the cartridge (meaning the wadding, shot-charge and shot-size).
In theory, you can check the tables of percentage of charge for a given choke put in the magic 30" circle at a given range, and from the charge and shot-size calculate how many pellets that puts there.
Bore-size should have nothing to do with it, though it has been suggested that higher-pressure loads (e.g. 3" .410 cartridges) might give worse patterns than lower-pressure ones.
The best way to check it is to shoot at a pattern-plate or similar, and see what happens.
As I see it, the 24g 7.5 20bore cartridge for smaller quarry, and the 30g 5s for larger give a marked advantage over anything the .410 (smallest shot-size 7, if you're lucky) has to offer.
In theory, you can check the tables of percentage of charge for a given choke put in the magic 30" circle at a given range, and from the charge and shot-size calculate how many pellets that puts there.
Bore-size should have nothing to do with it, though it has been suggested that higher-pressure loads (e.g. 3" .410 cartridges) might give worse patterns than lower-pressure ones.
The best way to check it is to shoot at a pattern-plate or similar, and see what happens.
As I see it, the 24g 7.5 20bore cartridge for smaller quarry, and the 30g 5s for larger give a marked advantage over anything the .410 (smallest shot-size 7, if you're lucky) has to offer.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Cost of the .410 cartridges vs the 20 bore cartridges may be worth investigating?
pj1
Well-Known Member
Ok thank you. I looked at the cost of cartridges on just cartridges and for the amount I would use a shot gun it's not going to make that much difference. I'm willing to be told different though as I really am not a shotgun type of guy. (Although you've probably worked that out by now).
When using my 12 bore I tend to use 21 gram loads and enjoy the lower recoil.
28 are ok and anything over that I start to get a sore head.
It looks like the 20 may be the way forward. It's just whether the lower noise of the 410 outways all the advantages of the 20
When using my 12 bore I tend to use 21 gram loads and enjoy the lower recoil.
28 are ok and anything over that I start to get a sore head.
It looks like the 20 may be the way forward. It's just whether the lower noise of the 410 outways all the advantages of the 20
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
What's your budget? The "dog's dangles" are supposedly the La Porte over and under 12 bore guns but they aren't that common and quite expensive.
FISH BOY
Well-Known Member
I use 18/6 subsonic magnums and knowing range limitations its effective. I believe they have a standard half choke and having nailed a few squirrels against trees and bunnies on grass, never found the spread to be an issue. If anything, it shoots a bit low at 20m.
Think its 72 hours, so if you wanted it borrow it for a couple of days, let me know.
Think its 72 hours, so if you wanted it borrow it for a couple of days, let me know.
Ive got a hushpowered .410 single and also a Pedretti hushpower O/U 20b. The 20b is a big old lump but gives a better sight picture as you sight along the moderator like a normal gun. With the .410 I have to 'cover' the quarry with the end of the barrel otherwise it will shoot low. I would imagine mine is a bit quieter than a 20b hushpower pump as the moderator is that bit bigger. My 20b isnt a lot louder than the .410 - both are shed loads quieter than an unmoderated shotgun. Hope that helps.
BTW I use 30g subsonic 5's in 20 gauge and while a bit slow so more lead required they kill pretty well at sensible ranges.
BTW I use 30g subsonic 5's in 20 gauge and while a bit slow so more lead required they kill pretty well at sensible ranges.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
If you read the old 19th Century books that they kill well makes sense. Teasdale-Buckell writes on it I think or maybe Greener. The pattern will be better with the slower velocity load. For as the books say in Victorian times if a gunmaker wanted to demonstrate to gullible client how "hard" (in other words how tight a pattern) a gun shot they'd load a reduced charge behind the gun's normal shot weight. Instead of the standard charge. One book mentions that one gunmaker by this trickery could make any of his guns, as the book says, "shoot the crown out of a top hat". So I'd have no doubt that the subsonics would kill pretty well. I think some of the writers on wildfowling also mention this idea. Sacrificing speed for a better pattern at longer ranges.
20g Hushpower Mossberg pump - I had the .410 (twice) - lacked range and pattern, even with 3" magnum carts, 12g too unwieldy and noise-wise very little to choose between all three. I like Jackson Rifles moderator solution for 12g which doesn't disrupt the sight picture like Hushpowers do, although you get used to it, eventually. You can also get a normal barrel for the Mossy 500's, Expect to Pay £450 for a 2nd hand one.
pj1
Well-Known Member
Thank you fish Boy very kind offer . Went out with my old dad's SBS hammer 410 this morning. Six shot seemed to do the trick on a squirrel or two but five shot had massive holes in the pattern. They where only 12.5 gram loads though.
Tarponhead do you still own the 410 s or sold for better things
Tarponhead do you still own the 410 s or sold for better things
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Hello again PJ1. It used to be that you had to get Winchester, or similar American, .410 loads for clay shooting that had smaller size shot. I think for squirrel UK 7 or smaller would be best. But now that excellent company Lylvale Express offer 2 1/2" .410 with 14 grammes shot in sizes UK 7 and UK 9. And 2" with 9 grammes in what they say is a "continental" 6 and "continenetal" 9. Hope it helps. I have no doubt that 9 would kill a squirrel at twenty five yards or so.
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pj1
Well-Known Member
The cartridges today we're eley four long in 2 1/2 inch chambering. Maybe a more modern loading as you say may be better. Interestingly the five shot cartridges where sticking in the chamber. The rolled crimp seems to be pushed out more compared to the 6 shot that could be extracted no problem at all as the crimp folded back in a bit. I'm not looking for extreme range with a moderated shotgun especially around farm buildings just enough to cleanly take pests that won't sit still for the air rifle.
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