Muzzle up or down?

[Smokedude]

Muzzle down right shoulder. sticks in the right hand with one finger around the barrel to stop the 2 knocking.

Thermal in the left hand so scanning with left eye.

Only load when ready to fire. I'm a Kiwi so went through the training to get a firearms licence there. Which is very different than the, your alright Fred here knock your socks off attitude that you have to get one here!

 

[Erik Hamburger]

Muzzle down for me.

Disadvantage is in long grass and brambles you sometimes snag your moderator on something; on difficult ground and slopes you can sometimes plug into the mud which is potentially dangerous, unless you have taped it off; and in the unlikely case of a N.D. you could shoot yourself in the foot.
Advantage is that when meeting walkers the often don't notice you are carrying a rifle, as it is quite hidden on your back; as you said you don't snag so easily on high branches; and in the unlikely case of a N.D. the bullet won't harm you.

In the days of me doing training and assessment for DSC1 and DSC2, and other courses, and 'Best Practise' days with the D.I./BDS/BASC, some of the instructors / demonstrators were insistent on either up or down, and would contradict each other, so I made a point of always asking in advance what their preference was, and being pragmatic I did what they wanted, rather than argue my case.

 

[Firefly]

‘ Better to be picking mud out your eyes than your eyes out the mud ‘

 

[RM100]

To add to the confusion: I often use a Kifaru. Using that, the rifle is muzzle up but coming under my right armpit. I really like this.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Must confess to being muzzle up by default, the transition from shoulder to sticks I don’t even think about it, messing in the garage after following this thread it seemed more effort muzzle down.
Even though I use a Top Notch sling with the chest strap the rifle does still want to tip back.
Friday I switched the sling round and went out for 4.5 hours on foot muzzle down and having the gun on and off sticks plenty of times I’m now a convert, it just sits where it wants and seems lighter, no need for the chest strap now so I’ve took it off. Bolt closed above a loaded mag, no chance of blowing my tootsies off.
I did bend down and stub the mod on the grass but thats easily avoided now I’m aware it happens.

 

[Puds]

Muzzle up for me. I’ve tried carrying them muzzle-down and just don’t get on with it.

An issue I came across was with my Parker-Hale & the bolt knocking up off my hip, to the point where I went to take a shot, squeezed the trigger & the bolt was just far enough up not to work yet not be noticeable. Not the end of the world but bloody annoying (my Mauser has a 3-stage safety so this didn’t happen, but I still didn’t like carrying it muzzle-down).

 

[8x57]

An issue I came across was with my Parker-Hale & the bolt knocking up off my hip, to the point where I went to take a shot, squeezed the trigger & the bolt was just far enough up not to work yet not be noticeable. Not the end of the world but bloody annoying (my Mauser has a 3-stage safety so this didn’t happen, but I still didn’t like carrying it muzzle-down).

I presume that your Parker Hale was a Midland?
The bolt is locked when the safety is applied on the K98 based Parker Hale rifles but isn't on the Midland.

I don't get the issue of the bolt rubbing against my hip when carrying a bolt action rifle because mine is always muzzle down on the left shoulder.

 

[Muntybuck5803]

To add to the confusion: I often use a Kifaru. Using that, the rifle is muzzle up but coming under my right armpit. I really like this.

+1
Big fan of that setup. Best I’ve used.

 

[freid]

View attachment 279416

A sling swivel on the barrel makes a rifle so much more comfortable to carry, whether it’s muzzle up or down.

And provided its not under tension, makes no difference to grouping or shot placement.

@Heym SR20 what rifle is that?!

 

[Scarpa]

I prefer muzzle down. But instead of tape buy a box of those mini condom style finger protecters used for cuts or counting money, they are great for slipping over a muzzle

 

[Olaf]

Always carry mine, regardless of calibre, muzzle down. Bolt up on chambered round. As lifted, bolt is pushed down, ready to go. Safety never used.
Taught that way as boy back home, still carry like that today. Footling about with safety catches has been the last thing some people ever did before something large and dangerous nailed them.

Scary.

 

[DaveW]

For me:
In England, where encounters with the public are common and the ground is firm - muzzle down.
In Scotland, where the nearest person is 10 miles away and i'm very likely to drop into a bog up to my knees - muzzle up!

 

[kieran222]

Muzzle up mostly but will switch to muzzle down when walking under low hanging branches.

 

[DVS1]

Well up til now I wasn't going to comment but after last nights incident I will.

I normally carry rifle muzzle up across back diagonally, very safe for climbing fences and gates etc (unloaded of course) and leaves both hands free with security of the rifle being under control.

I had the rifle slung on a single shoulder for readiness to fit to my tripod trying to get the angle on a fox and very boggy ground under foot. I didn't see a tyre track under long grass and did some amazing break dancing that Jacko would've been proud of!!

Having thought I'd regained my footing only to find another tyre rut and went flat on my arse and then heard a plop of said rifle going into boggy ground and puddle.

Reactions of a coiled cobra I snatched rifle out and immediately held muzzle down to allow any water that had entered the bore to drain.

Longer story short still managed a.brace of foxes BUT had I been carrying muzzle down then my bangstick would've driven its muzzle into the earth like a javelin.

 

[NewForester]

Muzzle up or muzzle down?

I asked this question of one of my mentors years ago and he said that with muzzle up the bullet still has to come down somewhere; and with muzzle down the bullet will be into the ground by your foot.

And, he said, if you are concerned about loosing a toe, you might pay a bit more attention to ensuring the safety is still on.

I have carried muzzle down ever since.

 

[Longstrider]

Muzzle up or muzzle down?

I asked this question of one of my mentors years ago and he said that with muzzle up the bullet still has to come down somewhere; and with muzzle down the bullet will be into the ground by your foot.

And, he said, if you are concerned about loosing a toe, you might pay a bit more attention to ensuring the safety is still on.

I have carried muzzle down ever since.

A bullet going up is dangerous because it's doing so at high speed, right up to the point where it slows, stops, and starts to fall back down again. Even when it gets back to ground level it will 'only' be travelling at terminal velocity ( Fast enough to hurt I'm sure, but I very much doubt it would be likely to do any serious harm). So .. any ND resulting in a bullet going upwards is a pretty safe direction for it to go IMO.
With muzzle down I can stub the mod into the dirt, catch it on any number of brambles and the like ( just as likely to make the rifle slip from my shoulder) and if there were to be an ND the bullet is going to be travelling very ruddy fast ,very ruddy close to my leg or foot, or someone elses leg or foot. Even if the bullet missed any "pink bits" on it's short journey from muzzle to ground, what is it likely to kick up when it gets there? A stone will cause dramatic fragmentation: Where are the bits going ? Gravel could fly any which way, and it would do so pretty violently I'm guessing.

I'll stick with muzzle up

 

[TringSaint]

At 6’4” and without the nimbleness of a ballerina I find rifle with mod constantly catching branches when out in woods. Drives me bonkers.
Switched to carrying muzzle down the other day when returning to vehicle (empty handed ). Revelation! More comfortable and discreet. Going out later today and have switched sling around to enable muzzle down as default.

Comment and views from greater experience and enlightened appreciated.

Cheers all

I carry muzzle down also, but more because I am a lefty I carry on my left shoulder but I shoot right handed, so having the rifle slung that way means I can take off my shoulder, roll the rifle in my hand (on the forend) and quickly position it for a shot.
I am also acutely aware of upward pointing muzzles collecting debris and also the possibility of the rifle moving and the muzzle ending up pointing in a dangerous direction. Note - the recent accident in France were out on a driven shoot a husband shot and killed his partner as she was standing directly behind him whilst he carried a shouldered rifle. Bullet went through her chest by all accounts.

 

[Alantoo]

A bullet going up is dangerous because it's doing so at high speed, right up to the point where it slows, stops, and starts to fall back down again. Even when it gets back to ground level it will 'only' be travelling at terminal velocity ( Fast enough to hurt I'm sure, but I very much doubt it would be likely to do any serious harm). So .. any ND resulting in a bullet going upwards is a pretty safe direction for it to go IMO.

Terminal velocity is not no velocity...

From...

https://www.ballistics.org/docs/ISB27_028.PDF

Bullet Terminal Velocity Effect
At launch angles ≤ 80o the nose down landing bullet seems to possess at least the estimated minimum lethal energy 40 J [16] after falling down from the altitude of about 3 km. The energy 40 J corresponds now to Terminal Velocity (TV) of about 92 m/s (see also [17]).
At very large launch angles over 80o the skull penetrating speed 60 m/s [17] is clearly exceeded without velocity retarding resonance or instability present.

and...

Experimental result found for an upwards fired 7.62 mm bullet terminal velocity is about 90 m/s, which is near to the base first landing case simulated result. The typical terminal velocities given in literature for spent bullets are from 300 fps to 600 fps (90...180 m/s) [17].
In many simulated cases through the launch angle region the bullet possessed the estimated minimum lethal energy 40 J at the end of trajectory. The skull penetrating speed 60 m/s was mostly clearly exceeded. A preliminary value for shooter-centered danger zone diameter obtained was found out to be approximately 8 km.

 

[Alantoo]

The other advantage of muzzle down carry that I don’t think has been raised in this particular thread is that the arc the muzzle describes from muzzle up carry to horizontal is all going somewhere dangerous given an ND

Only a few degrees of the arc from muzzle down carry to horizontal allow the bullet to go anywhere other than into the ground.

 

[Heym SR20]

Rather than sll this bollocks talked about muzzle up or muzzle down, why not simply carry rifle with chamber empty when its on your shoulder, any then load it when you are about to take a shot?

If you have a loaded firearm it should be in hand and total control of the direction it is pointing.

It takes but a moment to load a rifle. With a bit of practice you can ease a round into the chamber very quietly.

If you are sneaking along a woodland edge expecting a deer to pop out, by all means chamber a round, but keep the rifle in hand ready to shoot.

If you haven’t yet spotted a deer, nor stalking into something why do you need a loaded rifle on your shoulder.