N140 vs N540

[disco_ike]

Morning All,

Just wondering if there is a difference and what it is between N140 and N540. The manufacturer for the bullets I am using lists one on one set of loading data and the other on a different page. Just wanting to check that they are the same performing. I believe one is single base the other double base but wondered you enlightened lot could tell me what that means in practical terms please.

Thanks

 

[palmer_mike]

N140 is single base (nitro-cellulose)
N540 is double base (nitro-cellulose plus nitro glycerin)

Generally double base powders can give you a little more velocity but this may be at the cost of slightly faster barrel wear……

 

[disco_ike]

Hi Palmer-Mike,

thank you for that, that makes sense to me. I was getting confused as most results from searches just said about temperature stability.

 

[308tikka]

Correct

N140 is single base (nitro-cellulose)
N540 is double base (nitro-cellulose plus nitro glycerin)

Generally double base powders can give you a little more velocity but this may be at the cost of slightly faster barrel wear……

correct... another way to look at it is you can achieve the same velocity with 540 as 140 but using a bit less powder.

pressure curve will also be different. Do you NEED to get max velocity? If not N140 will do for deer...

 

[disco_ike]

Hi @308tikka

I was only able to get hold of the N540 locally. First time starting out with the Fox Bullets. They only list the load they use in the pre made ones. I am going to play it safe start a few grain lower and work my way up to the weight of powder they have.

any suggestions welcome.

 

[Andyquadra]

N140 is single base (nitro-cellulose)
N540 is double base (nitro-cellulose plus nitro glycerin)

Generally double base powders can give you a little more velocity but this may be at the cost of slightly faster barrel wear……

Hi Mike
Is one more temperature sensitive?

 

[palmer_mike]

Hi Mike
Is one more temperature sensitive?

Possibly, but not as far as I’ve noticed in real world use……

 

[tom308w]

Hi @308tikka

I was only able to get hold of the N540 locally. First time starting out with the Fox Bullets. They only list the load they use in the pre made ones. I am going to play it safe start a few grain lower and work my way up to the weight of powder they have.

any suggestions welcome.

send edd a pm with what powder you have available .he will probably have some load data or do you a quickload check . edd at ersg
cheers tom

 

[308tikka]

Hi @308tikka

I was only able to get hold of the N540 locally. First time starting out with the Fox Bullets. They only list the load they use in the pre made ones. I am going to play it safe start a few grain lower and work my way up to the weight of powder they have.

any suggestions welcome

Is it for 308? For lead based ammunition, it is very difficult to be over pressured wth n140 and up to 155gn projectile.

however with a short (18-24”) barrel you need to maximise burn time in barrel in my opinion - theres no need to stoke it for deer at deer ranges.

i presume you would then be using 130-136gn copper/brass projectiles?

Work up loads properly-do a ladder test and see where the sweet spot is for those projectiles and your individual barrel

 

[NullMac]

Hi Mike
Is one more temperature sensitive?

N540 will be.

Whether it has any practical effect will depend on what you are doing. Long range target shooting with big temperature swings sure. If you did your load development in South East England on a day when it was 35 degrees and then went stalking in the Cairngorms when it was -20 then sure you may well see a difference. You can just add a click or whatever.

But just developing and shooting in your local area particularly for stalking, forget about it.

 

[disco_ike]

Hi @308tikka

Is it for 308? For lead based ammunition, it is very difficult to be over pressured wth n140 and up to 155gn projectile.

however with a short (18-24”) barrel you need to maximise burn time in barrel in my opinion - theres no need to stoke it for deer at deer ranges.

i presume you would then be using 130-136gn copper/brass projectiles?

Work up loads properly-do a ladder test and see where the sweet spot is for those projectiles and your individual barrel

Hi,

I am using 150gr copper heads for this rifle. It’s a Remington 700 varmint barrel so I think I should be ok. I have also emailed Ed to see what his thoughts are as he developed the factory loading of them

 

[Colonel]

what caliber are you loading? I use V140 with 155gr bullets in my 308 varmint barrel out to 600yds with great results.

 

[Stalker-of-the-deer]

I was in the same boat, went for n140.

Could of got a little more velocity at the expense of barrel wear, but what's the point?

Every shop stocks n140 it and its a fantastic powder. I can walk into any shop and it's on the shelf, it's easy to work with and just about perfect for the 308

 

[disco_ike]

Hi

running this for 308 and couldn’t get N140 locally so had to go for the n540

 

[Ride walker]

According to Vihtavuori the N500 powders do not increase wear in the gun. They have a grain surface additive designed to reduce wear. ( Viht Reloading Manual, 4th Ed., page 52)

 

[Blind Pugh]

Have a read and download the spreadsheet............ run the numbers. Surprising....
(Accurate shooter..... Barrel life prediction, Excel spreadsheet)


You are being redirected...

I have found that using the lowest calorific value powder that burns correctly gives the longest barrel life.
You will find VVN140 a lot lower energy than N540
In a short barrel AR-Comp.......... 100% burn 18-20"

 

[GnZ]

One thing to consider is that n140 is less sensitive to temp change than its double based big brother.

 

[Blind Pugh]

Re Temperature stability:
Cant find data on Vihtavouri powder. They just say its low, but how low is anybodies guess.

AR-Comp
"Across that entire range of temperature, -20° F to +160° F, the ammo loaded with AR-Comp showed a variation of only 20 fps in muzzle velocity. The primary bullet type tested was a 77gr .224 bullet and the secondary was a 175gr .308 bullet."
Source:

New AR-Comp Powder from Alliant — Details Revealed « Daily Bulletin

Here's the latest info on Alliant's new AR-Comp powder. We had a chance to talk with Dick Quesenberry of Alliant, who revealed more details about this new propellant. First, Dick explained that AR-Comp is an advanced re-formulation of Reloder 15, a double-base Bofors powder.

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

 

[palmer_mike]

According to a thread I was reading just now (Temperature sensitivities for powders - PredatorMasters Forums)

Viht N500 series powder seems to be more stable than equivalent N100 series powders?

 

[Blind Pugh]

Something isn't right....
Those tables indicate AR-Comp at 0.77
If -20° F to +160° F 20 fps in muzzle velocity, then table should read 0.111' similar to the old Varget
From my testing at various temperatures, (not as extreme) the SD from all the other factors is wide enough to not show any variation in MV.