Neilson Sonic lead free bullets

[Stalker62]

Worried about being hit by a car?

Don't leave the house.

In a perfect world maybe...

 

[yellow belly]

Used them in .270win. Brilliant for red and sika stags (you get a really audible strike sound like lead), but on roe need a shoulder shot as if you use a heart/ lung I found the petals pop the rumen. Head and neck shooting....massive trauma, not much left of roe heads.

 

[Bowland blades]

I was listening to the Deercast podcast episode with Ben Heath of Deerbox which was, in parts at least very interesting.

He talked about the fact that he imports the Neilson bullets, copper with a brass wedge, has anyone had much experience with the brand in the field?

Discussing this with a stalking pal @JH83 we thought it was interesting that a venison dealer was voting for a round that is design to fragment petals. It seems contrary. Obviously lead is the most poisonous of metals used in bullet construction but is there no toxicity associated with copper and/or brass we wondered?

Ben did say he head or neck shoots most of his deer.

I’d add the fact that in my hill rifle, a 30:06 I also use biometal (versus monometal) bullets via factory non lead Geco Evo rounds that are copper with a twin tin core. This because they reviewed top in the Fieldsports Britian research piece, my Sako 85 liked them and they were the least expensive brand my dealer said they were getting a relatively consistent supply of.
These rounds I have used on around 20 reds and 20 roe in the last 14 months and they seem to create a bigger wound channel and exit wound than the lead I was using previously in that calibre.
However, associated with the above another stalking colleague who is also a vet @Selous also mentioned that the greater fragmenting nature of these biometal bullets was slightly at odds with whole non toxic drive. Incidentally some years ago he put a deer shot with lead in the chest through his MRI scanner and the image showing the sheer amount of very tiny lead fragments over such a large area was at the very least enough to make you sit up and listen to the whole non lead subject.

It has made me seriously consider moving away from the Geco rounds.

Interested in people’s thoughts.

copper is just about the safest metals , its even anti bacterial . brass is an alloy , potentially it might contain some lead but i think zinc is the common alloying element ( you certainly get zinc fumes as it melts ) I can taste the dambed stuff in the air and you get the white powder
I bought some sonic over a year ago , still havent tried one Barnes ttsx are where its at for me

 

[JH83]

My worry about the move away from lead was always the political motives, not the effectiveness of the rounds (I personally like them). Who is driving change? What are their motivations? It seems all of shooting is being subject to ‘death by 1000’ cuts at present, from lead bans, licensing of shoots, further gun laws, quarry lists being shortened daily- etc etc.

Copper is toxic in high quantities, copper poisoning is potentially fatal. The fact that it is very rare is irrelevant, my guess is lead poisoning through venison is also pretty rare. Anything leaving large amount of microscopic particles in food might put us back at square one so my intention is to use a design that retains structural integrity on impact like Barnes etc.

 

[Leec6.5]

My worry about the move away from lead was always the political motives, not the effectiveness of the rounds (I personally like them). Who is driving change? What are their motivations? It seems all of shooting is being subject to ‘death by 1000’ cuts at present, from lead bans, licensing of shoots, further gun laws, quarry lists being shortened daily- etc etc.

Copper is toxic in high quantities, copper poisoning is potentially fatal. The fact that it is very rare is irrelevant, my guess is lead poisoning through venison is also pretty rare. Anything leaving large amount of microscopic particles in food might put us back at square one so my intention is to use a design that retains structural integrity on impact like Barnes etc.

That sir is something i have long forgotten about and things are only going to get worst for us in years to come, that is why i have adopted the rule of jumping every hoop they place on the road and keep going and if i can get another 20-25 years from stalking that will do me.

 

[Magnificent 7]

That sir is something i have long forgotten about and things are only going to get worst for us in years to come, that is why i have adopted the rule of jumping every hoop they place on the road and keep going and if i can get another 20-25 years from stalking that will do me.

Another 20-25 years alive would do me

 

[Leec6.5]

my intention is to use a design that retains structural integrity on impact like Barnes etc.

The Barnes bullet and the lapua naturalis by far the most superior copper bullet on the market. In my opinion.

The new wave of fragmented expansion bullets, do not tickle my fancy, and I won’t be using them, for as long as I can get a Barnes bullet, that’s all I will use

If a British bullet manufacturer Can provide me with an identical Barnes bullet with exactly the same performance as a Barnes bullet. I will use it until then, no thank you.

 

[NickJ]

The shards I have recovered from the yewtree are around 5mm x 3mm I’ll post some pics when I get home from work as I always keep any bullet or fragment found more for mere shelf ornaments than anything.Reading up on toxicity I’d rather eat copper than the others but said that folk have been eating lead shot stuff for years and they have survived so far.

On that same podcast 'big' fragments including lead shot pass through the body (ironically given the impending lead shot ban) it's the microscopic fragments (as per lead 'splatter' that are more dangerous as are more fully ingested

 

[HonestJohn]

Once again epic words of wisdom from our resident expert in all things deer related

you mean all things life related

 

[Leec6.5]

you mean all things life related

Thats the one!

 

[paulbshooting]

We are all the marketers dream. They drip feed something new into the pot as the role of any product business is to sell what it has and innovate to sell something new. I have gone full circle back to nosler BT's and partitions. They work well, bang flop. BT's also sensible on cost. Cupboard full of yew tree, barnes and other brands, watch the classifieds for a bargain

 

[Ronin]

If a projectile is spinning at (estimated in 8 twist barrel at 2800 fps) circa 230000 rpm, at the point of impact, id strongly suggest there may well be some deterioration of the bullet (any bullet) on entry to a dense material (flesh)

Wouldn't worry about copper solids - designed to expand and not fragment) from discarding some material within the carcass

 

[Bowland blades]

My worry about the move away from lead was always the political motives, not the effectiveness of the rounds (I personally like them). Who is driving change? What are their motivations? It seems all of shooting is being subject to ‘death by 1000’ cuts at present, from lead bans, licensing of shoots, further gun laws, quarry lists being shortened daily- etc etc.

Copper is toxic in high quantities, copper poisoning is potentially fatal. The fact that it is very rare is irrelevant, my guess is lead poisoning through venison is also pretty rare. Anything leaving large amount of microscopic particles in food might put us back at square one so my intention is to use a design that retains structural integrity on impact like Barnes etc.

We really should not overplay copper as toxic , even water is toxic if the dose is high enough ! Copper is a very, very safe metal . It naturally kills bacteria and is the material we used to replace the old lead pipes because of this and its ductility , pretty much the ideal bullet material tbf . Besides it makes for some awesome bullets, albeit at a higher cost due to the required processes and metal cost over lead

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

We really should not overplay copper as toxic , even water is toxic if the dose is high enough ! Copper is a very, very safe metal . It naturally kills bacteria and is the material we used to replace the old lead pipes because of this and its ductility , pretty much the ideal bullet material tbf . Besides it makes for some awesome bullets, albeit at a higher cost due to the required processes and metal cost over lead

I think the anti-bacterial properties with regards to bullets is a bit of a reach.

All well if you have a copper door handle to kill bacteria but bullets...really? The contaminants from powder and outside layer of fur that it is dragging in with it would surly render it useless. Not to mention the miniscule part of the deer that the copper will touch

People tout the anti bac properties of copper as if its disinfecting the carcass for you

 

[Bowland blades]

I think the anti-bacterial properties with regards to bullets is a bit of a reach.

All well if you have a copper door handle to kill bacteria but bullets...really? The contaminants from powder and outside layer of fur that it is dragging in with it would surly render it useless. Not to mention the miniscule part of the deer that the copper will touch

People tout the anti bac properties of copper as if its disinfecting the carcass for you

well that's taking 2+2 and making it into 100 ! in the 60s 70s we removed copper surfaces in hospitals before we fully understood copper , we now know that the stainless steel we used actually gives bacteria a very nice place to live . My point is Copper is the safest metal we have as regards contamination and Toxicity and basically in the best! Also gives full expansion and 100% weight retention .

 

[Magnificent 7]

We really should not overplay copper as toxic , even water is toxic if the dose is high enough ! Copper is a very, very safe metal . It naturally kills bacteria and is the material we used to replace the old lead pipes because of this and its ductility , pretty much the ideal bullet material tbf . Besides it makes for some awesome bullets, albeit at a higher cost due to the required processes and metal cost over lead

I personally don’t think cost comes into it a bullet even if costing five pounds is cheap for the return of a freezer full of meat.Folk will waste far more money on the early morning coffee and bar of chocolate from the garage on the way there that is almsot ritual to some I’m sure.Myself and one of my mates who I stalk with have to have a Greg’s yum yum before we go as seemingly it’s ritual now and if we stopped it would bring bad luck.FATTY LOVES THE CAKES !!.

 

[Bowland blades]

I personally don’t think cost comes into it a bullet even if costing five pounds is cheap for the return of a freezer full of meat.Folk will waste far more money on the early morning coffee and bar of chocolate from the garage on the way there that is almsot ritual to some I’m sure.Myself and one of my mates who I stalk with have to have a Greg’s yum yum before we go as seemingly it’s ritual now and if we stopped it would bring bad luck.FATTY LOVES THE CAKES !!.

yeah thats fine if you take everything for your own larder but on my current trip it would likely cost perhaps £500 and upwards in ammo

 

[hendrix's rifle]

I personally don’t think cost comes into it a bullet even if costing five pounds is cheap for the return of a freezer full of meat.Folk will waste far more money on the early morning coffee and bar of chocolate from the garage on the way there that is almsot ritual to some I’m sure.Myself and one of my mates who I stalk with have to have a Greg’s yum yum before we go as seemingly it’s ritual now and if we stopped it would bring bad luck.FATTY LOVES THE CAKES !!.

That's not where the cost sits though, if you're on a weekend stalking you could fire 10-15 rounds quite happily? That's all deer in the chiller.

The added cost comes in to it when it comes to plinking and vermin shooting.
I will also say, I love a yum yum

 

[webley701]

I personally don’t think cost comes into it a bullet even if costing five pounds is cheap for the return of a freezer full of meat.Folk will waste far more money on the early morning coffee and bar of chocolate from the garage on the way there that is almsot ritual to some I’m sure.Myself and one of my mates who I stalk with have to have a Greg’s yum yum before we go as seemingly it’s ritual now and if we stopped it would bring bad luck.FATTY LOVES THE CAKES !!.

£5 per bullet may be a consideration for those who like to practice bit though.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

We really should not overplay copper as toxic , even water is toxic if the dose is high enough !

The irony, just like lead