New dog dilemma

[nun_hunter]

Sadly my family and I had to have our family let put to sleep last weekend due to his back legs and tail becoming completely paralysed. Although not ready to get another dog straight away we know we will have one again in the next few months.

The dilemma is that we both want a HWV and although my heart says get one my head is thinking a Lab may be a better choice as a 50:50 stalking dog and family pet. My main concern is from what I've read a HWV is 'harder' to train and being as this will be my first working dog I don't want to take on too much and get it wrong.

What I want from the dog is a stalking companion to assist while stalking, more for the indication of deer ahead and finding a freshly shot deer rather than a cold tracking dog. I don't do any real shotgun shooting but would also like to do some picking up training.

I'm after some advice from people with a HWV and maybe experience of training a Lab too and the differences and how much of a difference there is and if it was a lot harder. Am I thinking too much into this and should I just look for a WHV and jump in at the deep end per se, or get an "easier" to train Lab and then when all goes well get a HWV in a few years and have both dogs(having two dogs is the plan anyway be it two HWV or one and a Lab).

Any advice appreciated.

 

[griffshrek]

I've had several dog breeds over the years , and genuinely my HWV have been the easiest dogs I've ever handled. They are very very easy to train and the most biddable dog I've
owned all mine want to do is please . They are not as "tough" / hard headed as some HPR breeds and respond well to a firm but gentle hand .

Mine are working family pets and love both worlds , if you do go down the HWV route you will not be disappointed .

 

[Robbo46]

Hi nunhunter,
I had the same concerns when going from having had a lab to getting a vizsla.
I've now got two vizslas (1 is a wirey, the other smooth coat). I'm almost minded to say it's perhaps more about the litter / background when looking at these two breeds you mention, I've found our HWV lots of fun to train, she's certainly been fully engaged etc, also much easier than expected. I'm sure whichever you choose you'll be fine. Enjoy the dilemma

Cheers
Robbo

 

[unicorn71]

I currently have both , the lab in my avatar is 6 years old and we have (amongst others) a 3 year old HWV, in terms of training both have been really easy and both always want to please they are also a lot more chilled out when not working than my springers or GWP, I think the choice is really down to your own personal preference -both are great family dogs.

 

[countrryboy]

I think a lot might depend on the individual HWV, but for a HPR they are relatively easy to train (more sensitive which can brings its own problems than hard headed like ur typical GWP)

With a lab the differences between individual dogs will be less, so u should have a better idea wot ur getting.

I love labs so easy to train and in my opinion real jacks of all trades for more versatile (at a better standard) than most hpr's.
Must admit for a 1st working dog u really won't go wrong wth a lab from decent working lines (not ur modern FT type)
I think mos t folk 1st dog should be a lab, so easy to train and any mistakes u make are easily sorted, great dogs to learn a bit about dogs/training/working/handling etc.
Will easily handle anything from rough shooting, beating, picking up, wildfowling, stalking without batting an eye

Finally i see a lot of terrible labs about (all throu poor training) but generally u can still work even a poor lab, whereas a poor hpr is just a nightmare and often won't get out much

Must admit I've got my name down and 1st pick of a potential litter of HWV's next year, really like wot I've seen of the breed (althou I still think hpr's are over rated by many)

Wot ever u do be worth getting some help/lessons/demo of a decent trainer or go to 1 of the UKDTR/UKSHA training days or getting advice of some of those boys.
Really not hard to train a dog to an average working standard esp if someone shows u a few of the tricks

 

[mereside]

my personal thoughts are go with your first choice, do your homework on breeder for a good healthy dog then train it for your needs, its amazing how many people say this breed or that breed is hard to train but in reality its just a different way even in the same litter a different tack is needed but all you really need is consistency, build the blocks for what you need each step at a time and move forward with success it is that simple, rush forward and you end up in a world of pain. Small steps and success each time, you will have a dog for many years so don't rush, I started with HPR before ,moving to hounds for my needs but its getting the best from each dog, no need to push forward too soon, any dog can be a nightmare if you rush or don't put the basics in first, if you want a dog for stalking and a companion then start with obedience and get that rock solid, don't introduce the gun and the rifle together. once the switch is turned on for hunting it will never turn off so do each step separate till the dog is of good age, and remember these dogs take time to mature some a little later than others but never rush, atb wayne, ps did i mention not to rush, lol, but any help you need just ask, atb wayne

 

[cookingfat]

On our many training days I see very many Labs and WHV, both breeds are relatively easy to train, I tell people that WHV's are like labs in the fact that most I have seen are very quiet bailable dogs, any training is just a case of repetition on a regular basis and it's the time that most people find hard to find! Teach your dog one thing before moving onto the next step and don't be afraid to go back a step if needed, the dog doesn't see it as failure! This whole tracking game is probably one of the easiest things to teach your dog to do but it is very time consuming and this is what holds most back,
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TRAINING SHOULD BE FUN FOR BOTH DOG AND HANDLER
As has been said by others don't rush in to it and do your homework on which ever breed you choose,

good luck with which ever breed you get

Tony

 

[nun_hunter]

Thanks to all who have posted your comments and advice are all very appreciated. I have spoken to SWMBO and turns out she is dead against a HWV but loves the smooth Vizslas (she had said in the past how much she liked WHV but since going to a friend's house who had a GWP who came in from the rain smelling of wet dog she now wants a short haired). So looks like we'll be looking for a Vizsla bitch in the next few months followed by me asking many questions on here and an excess of puppy pictures!

 

[delta wolf]

The smooth is a very different animal to the wire. I would go with a wire but not a smooth over a lab. You often get relatively short coated pups in a whv litter, definitely a better choice for what you want.

 

[countrryboy]

Must admit personally I wouldn't touch a smooth vis with a barge pole.
Used to pick up along side some and were absolutely terrible, and even the 1's I've seen either FT'ing or at training days have not impressed me, well not as much as other breeds.
Seen quite a few over the years and yet to see a smooth I've really liked. But that's just my opinion/preference

Dunno if swimming/water would be an issue for u but many aren't over fond of it and some will hardly enter it at all.

 

[nun_hunter]

I know there is a difference between the smooth and wire haired and for my purposes I don't think it'll be such a huge difference but I would much prefer a wire haired but the wife has said no and unfortunately it has to be a joint decision. I'm going to try working on her to change her mind mind but I'm not hopeful. Xx

 

[NigelM]

I'm in Essex, not far from you. If you want to come and see a HWV with a very smooth coat (they vary enormously) you would be very welcome.

Before the HWV I had Labs and Cockers. The Vizsla has been the easiest to train and the best dog i have ever experienced. Today he sat on a peg on a partridge shoot, last week we were on the Roe. He quarters and points on the grouse moor, he points and tracks deer, he sits on the peg. Walking up pheasant and partridge he "stalks" through the covers and points - every shot in range. He lives in the house, likes nothing more than a cuddle on the sofa in the evening, is great with kids and scares the bejesus out of delivery men.

Most of all he's my mate. I wouldn't hesitate to get another come the day.

 

[nun_hunter]

Thank you for the offer Nigel I would love to take you up on that if I can get up your way at all. I prefer the shorter of the wire haired but with a good beard but the wife is saying no. Think I can work on her and if a litter comes up close by that are of the shorter wire haired I I'll see if I can change her mind.

 

[NigelM]

Mine is a Harigos dog from Julian Apps in Hastings. True working HWV.

Harrigoss Gundogs Homepage

 

[nun_hunter]

Mine is a Harigos dog from Julian Apps in Hastings. True working HWV.

Harrigoss Gundogs Homepage

Unfortunately he no longer breeds them as he was my first point of contact although he did put me onto a breeder of working WHV in Surrey. I'd happily travel 6hrs each way for the right one so should be one somewhere suitable this year.

 

[tom_0787]

The majority of my shooting is with the shotgun & I'm fortunate enough to do a reasonable about of driven stuff so for that reason my lab is 100% the perfect dog for me. A good friend has a GSP as he does a lot of rough shooting & I was seriously considering one before I got my current lab.

The one thing I will throw into the pot is that that as a general rule labs are much better at switching off whereas the little experience i have of HPR's is that they have a lot more drive, a lot more of the time!