New Gun Advice

J12BYE

Member
To anyone who can help me?

I am in the process of getting my shotgun license and I am eyeing up my first gun. I have my heart set on the Hatsan Esscort MPA, I have read up on it and seen it’s great value for money and seems to be a very reliable gun.

I would like to use it for practical shooting if I can but mainly for clay, has anyone had experience using it for clay and is it sufficient for this use?


 

VSS

Well-Known Member
There's a review here:
 

J12BYE

Member
Yes I read this and replied but got informed that this is 7 years old and doesn’t mention clay so I was hoping someone might have a more recent experience.

Thanks though.
 

srvet

Well-Known Member
Not really a great clay gun IMO. It is designed for tactical applications, ie cops and robbers, breaching doors, fighting off rival drug cartels etc. I have a similar styled (moderated) pump with a red dot sight for vermin control and it is the hardest shotgun I own to hit flying targets with.

If it is your first gun and first experience of shooting sports you may be better getting something that is more simple to operate and keep safe. Double barrel shotguns tick this box much better than pump/semi autos in my opinion as it is far more obvious when there is a shell in the chamber. Obviously a double barrel would not be great for practical, but I would also say that for a beginner practical shooting may be a step far until the basics of safe gun handling have been learnt . Most types of shotgun (S/S, O/U, semi, Pump) can be picked up quite cheaply secondhand. If you pop in to a local gunsmith and have a look at the array of shotguns you will be able to get an idea of what is available. Guntrader is also a good resource.
 

J12BYE

Member
Thanks for your reply, I am not a complete novice, I have rifle experience from the army and am well familiarised with range safety. I have gone down the shotgun route as it’s more common in this part of the country.

I would rather go for a semi but don’t want to invest in something that even with lots of practice will still be hard to hit moving targets.

Do you think it’s the shorter barrel or the grip that makes it difficult for clay?

Not really a great clay gun IMO. It is designed for tactical applications, ie cops and robbers, breaching doors, fighting off rival drug cartels etc. I have a similar styled (moderated) pump with a red dot sight for vermin control and it is the hardest shotgun I own to hit flying targets with.

If it is your first gun and first experience of shooting sports you may be better getting something that is more simple to operate and keep safe. Double barrel shotguns tick this box much better than pump/semi autos in my opinion as it is far more obvious when there is a shell in the chamber. Obviously a double barrel would not be great for practical, but I would also say that for a beginner practical shooting may be a step far until the basics of safe gun handling have been learnt . Most types of shotgun (S/S, O/U, semi, Pump) can be picked up quite cheaply secondhand. If you pop in to a local gunsmith and have a look at the array of shotguns you will be able to get an idea of what is available. Guntrader is also a good resource.
 

flying felix

Well-Known Member
You do realise that its a section 1 firearm and not a shotgun so you will need a FAC not a shotgun licence?

Practical shotguns are not suitable for clays and visa versa. On most clay ranges, you'll be politely asked to not to bring it again. Others way ask you to leave straight away, or allow you to use it as long as the limiter is fitted.

As stated above, you are far better getting a double barrel for clays.
 

J12BYE

Member
You do realise that its a section 1 firearm and not a shotgun so you will need a FAC not a shotgun licence?

Practical shotguns are not suitable for clays and visa versa. On most clay ranges, you'll be politely asked to not to bring it again. Others way ask you to leave straight away, or allow you to use it as long as the limiter is fitted.

As stated above, you are far better getting a double barrel for clays.
Ok thanks for the advice, I will reevaluate my choices. I have been told though that this is allowable on a shotgun license as it is a 2+1 but you can buy a 7+1 version but this requires a FAC.
 

srvet

Well-Known Member
Sorry if I was teaching granny to suck eggs!
The issues tend to be connected with balance between the hands (which is subjective) and sighting or lack thereof. The Hatsan you posted appears to have rifle sights, presumably a ghost ring at the rear. This would totally mess with peripheral vision and acquisition of targets. Compared to rifle shooting shotguns are far more instinctive. The rear sight is replaced by a consistent gun mount and cheek weld on the comb and the fore sight is just a bead that is often ignored. I shot for over 12 months with a gun with no foresight and posted normal scores (for me)
The other thing I never got used to with semi/ pump is the long lock time compared to a double barrel. It may sound trivial but it makes a difference when your target may be visible for a second or less. The best thing to do may be to book a lesson at a clay ground and try a few options
 

flying felix

Well-Known Member
Ok thanks for the advice, I will reevaluate my choices. I have been told though that this is allowable on a shotgun license as it is a 2+1 but you can buy a 7+1 version but this requires a FAC.
You are right that if it is permanently limited it will be allowed on a Shotgun licence, however it then makes it no good for practical shotgun: Practical rifle and pistol is about how fast you can engage targets, practical shotgun is about how fast you can reload the gun. At a minimum you really need at least a capacity of 9 to be competitive, even for fun you will need at least 7.
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
Apparently a plain bead works best with shot and iron sights with slug. That's not to say you can't effectively use iron sights with shot and indeed for some it's easier to achieve hits. Use a shotgun with such as you would using a rifle on any moving target. As at least they can see the barrel is pointed in the right direction. But generally for shot a bead is best.
 

Chanty Wrassler

Well-Known Member
We have certificates, not licences, for shotguns and other firearms. In fact the words "licence" and "licensing" do not appear in the relevant legislation. This is important, it is not just playing with words. The word "licence" means being granted permission whereas in the UK we do not need permission, possession of firearms is a right, subject to us meeting certain conditions, and we have recourse to the courts if it is refused. ( From Section 27 of the Firearms Act "A firearm certificate shall be granted by the chief officer of police . . " - not may be, but shall be )

So less talk of licences and licensing, please
 

J12BYE

Member
We have certificates, not licences, for shotguns and other firearms. In fact the words "licence" and "licensing" do not appear in the relevant legislation. This is important, it is not just playing with words. The word "licence" means being granted permission whereas in the UK we do not need permission, possession of firearms is a right, subject to us meeting certain conditions, and we have recourse to the courts if it is refused. ( From Section 27 of the Firearms Act "A firearm certificate shall be granted by the chief officer of police . . " - not may be, but shall be )

So less talk of licences and licensing, please
Thank you for your correction, I can see you are a fountain of knowledge and probably fun in small doses. I have a feeling you might work in health and safety or maybe even quality control, you are a credit to your profession.
 

Big Bang Theory

Well-Known Member
Thank you for your correction, I can see you are a fountain of knowledge and probably fun in small doses. I have a feeling you might work in health and safety or maybe even quality control, you are a credit to your profession.
Easy Tiger! This is one of, if not the most, informative and knowledgeable fora I have ever seen. My advice (for what it’s worth?) would be to take advice and comments for what they are. That is, at face value with no hidden agenda?

Just my thoughts....
 

J12BYE

Member
Easy Tiger! This is one of, if not the most, informative and knowledgeable fora I have ever seen. My advice (for what it’s worth?) would be to take advice and comments for what they are. That is, at face value with no hidden agenda?

Just my thoughts....
I actually appreciate your comment as you approach it in the right way but not condescending comments from experienced members towards people just starting out. That’s not the type of culture I want to see on here.

Anyway no more negativity, thanks for peoples advice.
 

oager

Well-Known Member
I use an Armsan 2+1 for clays and rough shooting. It’s another decent Turkish semi-auto. I find it very pointable and it’s been passed around the shoot a bit as a spare gun when needed. It’s been completely reliable and everyone shot pretty well with it. As it happens, I’ve upgraded to a Benelli which I like and shoot slightly better with, but it’s four times the price. If you’re interested, I’m up for selling the Armsan because it’s barely used these days.
 

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