Newbie question re fridge/freezer

[Sako75Hunter]

I'm getting into deer stalking for the first time, and am ready to go re deer licence, permissions, rifle, and most other equipment. I plan on shooting only about 2-3 Sika per season, both to protect some young forestry on my own land, and as free healthy food for myself and my family.

Someone gave me a freezer recently: it's a stainless steel, fairly large (external dimensions approx. 5'6"h, 2'6"w, 3'd) free-standing job that came out of a catering establishment, and I now have it installed in an old stone outhouse. My question is can I use this alone for deer carcasses, or do I need to get a fridge (eg coca-cola glass-fronted) as well, and put them into that first?

I presume either way I should hang them from the rafters of the outhouse for a few days, the duration depending on the temperature?

If I can get away with using only the freezer (ie no fridge) that would be great, as the space available is limited, and it would be nice to avoid another expense.

Any advice appreciated.

 

[N1mr0d]

Hi

I suggest that you read your way through these best practice guides then come back with any questions that you still have

Meat Hygiene best practice guides | The Deer Initiative

 

[Sako75Hunter]

Hi

I suggest that you read your way through these best practice guides then come back with any questions that you still have

Meat Hygiene best practice guides | The Deer Initiative

Thanks for that, will have a good read of it all.

I would however note that these are best practice guidelines, and seem to be more aimed at those who are processing significant numbers of deer carcasses on a regular basis. I would be interested to hear a variety of opinions on whether I need a fridge, or would be ok with just the freezer that I have already. I'd imagine there are other members like me who are doing this on a small scale to cater for themselves, family and perhaps a couple of friends, and who don't have dedicated semi-industrial set-ups for butchering, storage, etc?

 

[N1mr0d]

I only do small scale - between 20 and 30 deer a year, I have both a standard family bosch tall fridge (£40 second hand) with a fan and a freezer (free from a friend). I skin from a beam in a shed and luckily picked up a bit of off cut marble worktop (£10) to make a table out of with a few batons. My one semi commercial bit of kit is a large red cutting board that is kept exclusively for venison and cost about £20. Added a boning knife and bone saw from Monarch on here (£25 I think). Whether you are putting meat into the general food chain or just supplying your own family and friends the standard that you prepare the meat to should be exactly the same - high - which is why the best practice guidelines are entirely relevant to your situation.

 

[Sako75Hunter]

Thanks again for the reply. If 20-30 deer/year is smallscale, I don't know what you'd call my planned 2-3 a year! Fair enough though, I take your point.

I'm not for a moment saying that what's in the guidelines is irrelevant to my situation. I don't plan to be lax about any of the hygiene or other essential aspects of the process, quite the contrary. What I'm specifically interested in here though is not so much that side, or the gralloching or butchering of the carcass, but rather how to conserve it, and whether a fridge with a fan is an essential requirement in that process.

The guidelines say the carcass should be:
"hung for about 6 hours without chilling to ensure full and rapid onset of rigor mortis and prevent ‘cold shortening' of the soft muscles. The carcass should then be chilled at 1-4 degrees C and could be stored for up to 10 days to ensure tenderness and maturation, depending on age." (Carcass Butchering 1)

I'm wondering would it make a huge difference to put the carcass straight into the freezer after hanging it for 6 hours, without first chilling it in a fridge with a fan? I often put rabbit carcasses into the freezer after removing all the unwanted parts, and haven't noticed any problems there.

 

[bowji john]

I'm not sure if I'm reading your initial question correctly but ...

Hanging an entire carcass in the freezer wouldn't make a lot of sense to me

As it would be unnecessarily difficult to butcher and process an entire frozen beast

Mine hang in a chiller (not mine) until I'm ready to butcher - then the steaks, chops and ground meat and/or sausages get frozen in individual packages

No reason why you can't use your big stand up freezer, but i'd put shelves in it

j

 

[Bladerunner]

I think I see what you are getting at?

If you have a sika hung to cool down and relax after rigor, you could then set about the skinning and butchering process and put the resultant cuts of venison straight in freezer. That isn't an issue, some will prefer to hang for a long time for flavour some a shorter time, think that's down to how gamey you like things and personal preference.

The question you have to consider is; is your outhouse sufficiently cold enough to allow you to do this?

The important thing when handling the meat is allowing it to quickly cool after the gralloch, and then maintaining the carcass at a low temperature whilst skinning and butchering is carried out. If your outhouse is at a steady temperature of +2 - +8c in the month of January and doesn't fluctuate quickly I would think this would be fine. After all that's all a walk-in chiller is, a big cold box?

Get a good digital thermometer that records max/min and starting checking everyday that will give you a good idea as to whether its feasible. Insulation can help with reducing the fluctuations.

Whether your outhouse is hygienic or clean enough to prep food in is entirely different matter? Stainless steel table and washable splash back will be a good starting point?

 

[Sako75Hunter]

I'm not sure if I'm reading your initial question correctly but ...

Hanging an entire carcass in the freezer wouldn't make a lot of sense to me

As it would be unnecessarily difficult to butcher and process an entire frozen beast

Mine hang in a chiller (not mine) until I'm ready to butcher - then the steaks, chops and ground meat and/or sausages get frozen in individual packages

No reason why you can't use your big stand up freezer, but i'd put shelves in it

j

Cheers for this. I should have mentioned that the freezer does have shelves, as well as about a half dozen trays that slot into the shelves. So yes, it would be necessary to butcher the carcass into useably-sized sections before putting it in there.

 

[Sako75Hunter]

I think I see what you are getting at?

If you have a sika hung to cool down and relax after rigor, you could then set about the skinning and butchering process and put the resultant cuts of venison straight in freezer. That isn't an issue, some will prefer to hang for a long time for flavour some a shorter time, think that's down to how gamey you like things and personal preference.

The question you have to consider is; is your outhouse sufficiently cold enough to allow you to do this?

The important thing when handling the meat is allowing it to quickly cool after the gralloch, and then maintaining the carcass at a low temperature whilst skinning and butchering is carried out. If your outhouse is at a steady temperature of +2 - +8c in the month of January and doesn't fluctuate quickly I would think this would be fine. After all that's all a walk-in chiller is, a big cold box?

Get a good digital thermometer that records max/min and starting checking everyday that will give you a good idea as to whether its feasible. Insulation can help with reducing the fluctuations.

Whether your outhouse is hygienic or clean enough to prep food in is entirely different matter? Stainless steel table and washable splash back will be a good starting point?

This is exactly the information I was looking for, thanks a mill, Bladerunner.

I presume the longer the carcass is left hanging, the less gamey the meat is, or is it the other way around? (I actually love gamey!)

Regarding the sort of winter temps I can expect in the outhouse, the simple answer is I don't know, but I will start checking that straight away. I recall someone mentioning to me that you can buy a sort of cover to go over the carcass while it's hanging to avoid dust etc. settling on it. Does anyone know about these?

 

[takbok]

I'd say that you don't need a fridge/chiller. I hang my deer (for own and woodland owner's consumption) from 1 day in summer up to about 2-4 days in winter in a stone outbuilding/annex before butchering and freezing the venison. It's always tasty no matter how long it's hung for. Mostly roe with the odd Sika.

I leave the skin on until butchering and don't have to worry about covering carcass as there are no flies (in summer) and dust.

 

[Sako75Hunter]

I'd say that you don't need a fridge/chiller. I hang my deer (for own and woodland owner's consumption) from 1 day in summer up to about 2-4 days in winter in a stone outbuilding/annex before butchering and freezing the venison. It's always tasty no matter how long it's hung for. Mostly roe with the odd Sika.

I leave the skin on until butchering and don't have to worry about covering carcass as there are no flies (in summer) and dust.

That's great to know, thanks takbok.

It never fails to impress me how brilliant SD is for working out how to approach an issue when you're unsure yourself.

Bladerunner's comment above has also made me realise I'll have to get sorted with a stainless steel table for butchering (I know, seems obvious now!). Oh, and a 'carcass tray' (not sure if that's the correct term?) for the car.

 

[takbok]

No problem, I've learnt a lot from SD over the past few years myself!

I've got a plastic sledge as my carcass tray. I cut up the deer while it's hanging so don't need a big table. All you need then for dividing haunches etc is a big wooden chopping board or even some basic melamine trays like I use. A hand mincer is good for mincing the flank and sometimes the neck meat (if the neck is not used for stewing whole) and other small offcuts.

I use a cheap hultafors knife for everything from gralloching to butchering.

Sorry for waffling on. Hope it's of some use.

 

[Sako75Hunter]

I can't see any waffling there, only very useful advice!

Thanks again

 

[Alantoo]

Have a look at the Tenderum web site (Tenderum devices are sold by Bushwear Larder Equipment - Stalking, Hunting Shooting). They monitor the temperature fluctuations and indicate the optimum hanging time.

They are based on the idea of hanging the carcass for 40 degree days, i.e. between 40 days at 1˚C or 10 days at 4˚C. You want to keep it below 7 degrees at all times.

If you want to use your freezer as a chiller you may look at advice given on here by Sikadog who is a refrigeration engineer. You can override the built in thermostat with an external one and use the freezer unit to maintain 4˚C as a chiller.

Alan

 

[Bladerunner]

Bladerunner's comment above has also made me realise I'll have to get sorted with a stainless steel table for butchering (I know, seems obvious now!). Oh, and a 'carcass tray' (not sure if that's the correct term?) for the car.

You don't especially need a fancy purpose built table, a sheet of stainless with a 90 degree bend to form splash back and the front edge rolled over could be used on existing work top? Lots of chest freezers are designed to provide extra work surface, a length of spare/old kitchen work top would be ok. Even as above mentioned, a very large plastic chopping board from catering company with a heavy plastic table cloth on a work bench would work ( for the 2 or 3 deer). Big old butcher's block properly oiled would be great, but very trendy now so hard to get cheap.

Key point is that the surface is non porous and you can keep it clean with anti bacterial spray, you want to make sure there is nowhere for dirt and germs to build up.

You can buy a bag that you cover a hanging deer in, made of a fly proof mesh, from bushwear I think, but as above if you are a working at the time of year to maintain the low temps doubt flies will be an issue, dust is another matter. These are relatively cheap and can be chucked in washing machine to clean (obviously don't use fabric conditioner). If I need to, I use an old mozzy net I have and just stick a cable tie round the bottom.

As for deer tray/ boot liner, a number of threads on here discuss options, a plastering bath from screwfix (£25) or similar seems to be very popular, white plastic is easier to see blood on than black and again non porous is easy to spray and wipe. You can then transport deer nice and hygienic and place tray under hanging carcass to catch any drips.

Just keep asking yourself 'Would I eat that?' As in, if I got a nice fillet steak from the supermarket, unwrapped it, threw it in the boot next to dog and wellies, then got home and left it on the tool bench in the garage for the weekend, then cut it in half with a rusty old cleever on the wife's old cheese board, wrapped it in cling film and froze it. I mean sure it might look like a steak when defrosted but would you want to eat it?

One other thing that might be handy, while you have the wallet open is a vacuum sealer, literally the best thing I have ever bought, prevents freezer burn, prolongs shelf life, makes everything very neat I have a Andrew James (£30 black friday amazon) and it's great use it for everything.

 

[Sako75Hunter]

You don't especially need a fancy purpose built table, a sheet of stainless with a 90 degree bend to form splash back and the front edge rolled over could be used on existing work top? Lots of chest freezers are designed to provide extra work surface, a length of spare/old kitchen work top would be ok. Even as above mentioned, a very large plastic chopping board from catering company with a heavy plastic table cloth on a work bench would work ( for the 2 or 3 deer). Big old butcher's block properly oiled would be great, but very trendy now so hard to get cheap.

Key point is that the surface is non porous and you can keep it clean with anti bacterial spray, you want to make sure there is nowhere for dirt and germs to build up.

You can buy a bag that you cover a hanging deer in, made of a fly proof mesh, from bushwear I think, but as above if you are a working at the time of year to maintain the low temps doubt flies will be an issue, dust is another matter. These are relatively cheap and can be chucked in washing machine to clean (obviously don't use fabric conditioner). If I need to, I use an old mozzy net I have and just stick a cable tie round the bottom.

As for deer tray/ boot liner, a number of threads on here discuss options, a plastering bath from screwfix (£25) or similar seems to be very popular, white plastic is easier to see blood on than black and again non porous is easy to spray and wipe. You can then transport deer nice and hygienic and place tray under hanging carcass to catch any drips.

Just keep asking yourself 'Would I eat that?' As in, if I got a nice fillet steak from the supermarket, unwrapped it, threw it in the boot next to dog and wellies, then got home and left it on the tool bench in the garage for the weekend, then cut it in half with a rusty old cleever on the wife's old cheese board, wrapped it in cling film and froze it. I mean sure it might look like a steak when defrosted but would you want to eat it?

One other thing that might be handy, while you have the wallet open is a vacuum sealer, literally the best thing I have ever bought, prevents freezer burn, prolongs shelf life, makes everything very neat I have a Andrew James (£30 black friday amazon) and it's great use it for everything.

That's all excellent advice, cheers Bladerunner.

You frame the hygiene question very well ("Just keep asking yourself 'Would I eat that?'"). That's a good perspective to have throughout the process.

Re a table, I have a local steel fabricator who's very reasonable, so maybe I'll get a cheap second-hand table somewhere, and then get him to make up a stainless steel cover for it with an upstand to the rear, and have it hang down a little to the front, as you say.

On the other hand, some people seem to prefer butchering the carcass while it's still hanging, rather than on a bench. What are the pros and cons of each approach? If I were to do the butchering while still hanging I could use the deer tray for underneath, and it would save having to organise a work platform at all. Given that we're talking very small numbers of deer, maybe that could be the way to go also?

Re the vacuum sealer, I can certainly see the benefits there, and will certainly be giving some thought to that.

 

[Sako75Hunter]

Have a look at the Tenderum web site (Tenderum devices are sold by Bushwear Larder Equipment - Stalking, Hunting Shooting). They monitor the temperature fluctuations and indicate the optimum hanging time.

They are based on the idea of hanging the carcass for 40 degree days, i.e. between 40 days at 1˚C or 10 days at 4˚C. You want to keep it below 7 degrees at all times.

If you want to use your freezer as a chiller you may look at advice given on here by Sikadog who is a refrigeration engineer. You can override the built in thermostat with an external one and use the freezer unit to maintain 4˚C as a chiller.

Alan

Thanks for the suggestion Alan, that sure looks like a useful piece of equipment if I'm going to do without a fridge/chiller.

Reckon I'll be investing in one of these.

 

[sauer]

Keep your eyes open

Here was someone selling stainless tables on here very cheap
Just no one wanted to pay bit more couriering them I think
Any old butchers or pubs restaurants refitting etc

As said try to keep your standards as high as possible

You really want to break that beast down before you freeze it as a whole beast defrosted then you have to eat it .
Go on to YouTube and google Scott Rea project

Buy the boning knife and bone saw deal from rob & Jessica at monarch country products

That and good size chopping board you be fine

Be fastidious with cleaning

Lidl or Aldi do vacuum packers periodically ... break beast down I to what you want portion meal wise , vac pak then enjoy venison and game all year round

Dont know where you are but if you in NE Scotland I’d gladly show you how to basically break beast down make burgers etc

Paul

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

sometimes keith kjf gets tables.doug

 

[bogtrotter]

If you are putting straight into freezer ( not a great idea) but can be done you would need to butcher it first, what are you going to do with a complete frozen carcase ? you would need to defrost to butcher, then it should not be refrozen!

You would've far better to try and pick up a small fridge/chill unit, alternatively hang for as long as possible then butcher then freeze that is OK in cold weather but not really possible in summer.