Some time go I sent an email to NE's complaints section over waiting for my licence which I filled in on line from day 1.....
Tue 21/05/2019 10:0
Dear Tim
Thank you for your complaint of Monday the 20th of May 2019 , regarding the delays in licence confirmation.
We are committed to fully investigating all complaints from our customers and you will receive a response at stage 1 of the complaints process no later than Wednesday the 5th of June 2019. Our complaints procedure can be found on our website:
Date: 23rd May 2019 By email only, Complaint 7356 – Licence to control certain wild birds I am writing in response to your complaint concerning the lateness of your licence to control certain birds.
Mon 17/06/2019 09:57 Dear Mr Tim Cc FOI team,
Please could you respond to Tim on the below.
Thank you for your email, I have sent the below information to the FOI team, my sincere apologies that this has not been forwarded to the team to respond.
Wed 26/06/2019 11:06 Thank you for your email.
Due to high volumes of enquiries relating to the 3 general licences (GL04/05/06) for the control of wild birds there has been a delay in responding to you. Thank you sincerely for your patience.
This was dealt with by the very helpful (Tracy) who set things in motion alas the "10" working days is like being stuck in a SI-FI time loop.....!
Eventually a reply appeared explaining there were some 2000 licences’ being dealt with in date order, having listened to the answers from the NE trio in front of the EFRA committee this was no great surprise.
Within NE GL 31 were/are many unworkable parts to it, one in particular caught my eye from the off.
If using scarecrows, make it look as real as possible, dress it in your old clothes, sit it on a chair and put a gun-like stick in its hand, move it regularly (ideally daily or more frequently). Occasionally change places with the scarecrow, and use this method to shoot to scare or to kill woodpigeons (under licence).
Know the very helpful Tracy did add in her reply “was there anything else I can help you with?”
Yes there may well be!!
NE has a FOI team whom I sent and email to requesting the details of the case study of the Scarecrow advice which is in their TABLE 1 - Appropriate lawful methods of resolving problems.
This is the daisy chain which followed….!!
Mon 17/06/2019 09:57 Dear Mr Tim Cc FOI team,
Please could you respond to Tim on the below.
Thank you for your email, I have sent the below information to the FOI team, my sincere apologies that this has not been forwarded to the team to respond.
Wed 26/06/2019 11:06
Thank you for your email.
Due to high volumes of enquiries relating to the 3 general licences (GL04/05/06) for the control of wild birds there has been a delay in responding to you. Thank you sincerely for your patience.
Mon 01/07/2019 13:1 Dear Tim,
Thank you for your email, Please except my apologies for the delay in your response I have sent this to the FOI team today, to respond to you, officially the 10 working days expires today.
Many thanks
Tue 02/07/2019 10:42 Dear Tim,
Please except my apologies, I have sent this onto the original complaint handler to respond, I had an email from the FOI team stating that this isn’t something they can answer as it is to do with replies to queries not recorded information.
Many thanks
Wed 10/07/2019 17:58 Dear Tim
Thanks for your email. I’ve looked into the matter and there appears to have been some confusion on our part over handling the various emails. Your original complaint about delays to your licence application was dealt with in Rebecca Winter’s letter to you on 23 May. However we weren’t as clear as we should have been in response to your “FOI request”. I have asked our Customer Focus team to contact you again, to clarify the advice we have given.
Best wishes
Marian Spain Chief Executive
What I received was a copy of GL 31……FFS lol
So I dug a bit deeper looking for “evidence based data”
Know the chap who sent me this was NOT FROM NE but very helpful also his second reply told me he has his feet firmly on the ground.
Dear Tim
In response to your recent enquiry regarding a specific method of utilising scarecrows that is referenced in the Natural England general licence advice on alternative methods, I think I can point you towards some of the evidence that may have been used to support including the advice.
I should point out that over the years I have spoken to a few people who have anecdotally described the use of methods similar to this. It would involve dressing 'scarecrows' in similar clothing, for example tractor overalls, or something of a distinctive colour so that birds are encouraged to make the association between scarecrow and the active person(s) who occasionally disturbs or threatens them by showing up in the field while wearing the same clothing.
Unfortunately as with many scaring approaches, rigorous testing of individual methods and tactics is rare. There are however two studies that I am aware of that used the very method described in the NE general licence (which is quite precise in its instruction). They were both undertaken in Israel by the same researchers.
The technique involved using dummies sat on chairs holding model guns and dressed in yellow waterproofs that were also worn by the workers, including when actively shooting and scaring birds. This was done to protect fish farm ponds from the depredation of cormorants, and in another study to deter cranes from damaging crops
NOT PIGEONS!! AND NOT IN ENGLAND LOL……..
So in a nut shell NE piggy backed advice from ISRAEL to PAD OUT their GENERAL LICENCE.......LOL
Tim.243
Tue 21/05/2019 10:0
Dear Tim
Thank you for your complaint of Monday the 20th of May 2019 , regarding the delays in licence confirmation.
We are committed to fully investigating all complaints from our customers and you will receive a response at stage 1 of the complaints process no later than Wednesday the 5th of June 2019. Our complaints procedure can be found on our website:
Date: 23rd May 2019 By email only, Complaint 7356 – Licence to control certain wild birds I am writing in response to your complaint concerning the lateness of your licence to control certain birds.
Mon 17/06/2019 09:57 Dear Mr Tim Cc FOI team,
Please could you respond to Tim on the below.
Thank you for your email, I have sent the below information to the FOI team, my sincere apologies that this has not been forwarded to the team to respond.
Wed 26/06/2019 11:06 Thank you for your email.
Due to high volumes of enquiries relating to the 3 general licences (GL04/05/06) for the control of wild birds there has been a delay in responding to you. Thank you sincerely for your patience.
This was dealt with by the very helpful (Tracy) who set things in motion alas the "10" working days is like being stuck in a SI-FI time loop.....!
Eventually a reply appeared explaining there were some 2000 licences’ being dealt with in date order, having listened to the answers from the NE trio in front of the EFRA committee this was no great surprise.
Within NE GL 31 were/are many unworkable parts to it, one in particular caught my eye from the off.
If using scarecrows, make it look as real as possible, dress it in your old clothes, sit it on a chair and put a gun-like stick in its hand, move it regularly (ideally daily or more frequently). Occasionally change places with the scarecrow, and use this method to shoot to scare or to kill woodpigeons (under licence).
Know the very helpful Tracy did add in her reply “was there anything else I can help you with?”
Yes there may well be!!
NE has a FOI team whom I sent and email to requesting the details of the case study of the Scarecrow advice which is in their TABLE 1 - Appropriate lawful methods of resolving problems.
This is the daisy chain which followed….!!
Mon 17/06/2019 09:57 Dear Mr Tim Cc FOI team,
Please could you respond to Tim on the below.
Thank you for your email, I have sent the below information to the FOI team, my sincere apologies that this has not been forwarded to the team to respond.
Wed 26/06/2019 11:06
Thank you for your email.
Due to high volumes of enquiries relating to the 3 general licences (GL04/05/06) for the control of wild birds there has been a delay in responding to you. Thank you sincerely for your patience.
Mon 01/07/2019 13:1 Dear Tim,
Thank you for your email, Please except my apologies for the delay in your response I have sent this to the FOI team today, to respond to you, officially the 10 working days expires today.
Many thanks
Tue 02/07/2019 10:42 Dear Tim,
Please except my apologies, I have sent this onto the original complaint handler to respond, I had an email from the FOI team stating that this isn’t something they can answer as it is to do with replies to queries not recorded information.
Many thanks
Wed 10/07/2019 17:58 Dear Tim
Thanks for your email. I’ve looked into the matter and there appears to have been some confusion on our part over handling the various emails. Your original complaint about delays to your licence application was dealt with in Rebecca Winter’s letter to you on 23 May. However we weren’t as clear as we should have been in response to your “FOI request”. I have asked our Customer Focus team to contact you again, to clarify the advice we have given.
Best wishes
Marian Spain Chief Executive
What I received was a copy of GL 31……FFS lol
So I dug a bit deeper looking for “evidence based data”
Know the chap who sent me this was NOT FROM NE but very helpful also his second reply told me he has his feet firmly on the ground.
Dear Tim
In response to your recent enquiry regarding a specific method of utilising scarecrows that is referenced in the Natural England general licence advice on alternative methods, I think I can point you towards some of the evidence that may have been used to support including the advice.
I should point out that over the years I have spoken to a few people who have anecdotally described the use of methods similar to this. It would involve dressing 'scarecrows' in similar clothing, for example tractor overalls, or something of a distinctive colour so that birds are encouraged to make the association between scarecrow and the active person(s) who occasionally disturbs or threatens them by showing up in the field while wearing the same clothing.
Unfortunately as with many scaring approaches, rigorous testing of individual methods and tactics is rare. There are however two studies that I am aware of that used the very method described in the NE general licence (which is quite precise in its instruction). They were both undertaken in Israel by the same researchers.
The technique involved using dummies sat on chairs holding model guns and dressed in yellow waterproofs that were also worn by the workers, including when actively shooting and scaring birds. This was done to protect fish farm ponds from the depredation of cormorants, and in another study to deter cranes from damaging crops
NOT PIGEONS!! AND NOT IN ENGLAND LOL……..
So in a nut shell NE piggy backed advice from ISRAEL to PAD OUT their GENERAL LICENCE.......LOL
Tim.243
what a crock of Shat .
