I shoot with an nv scope worth £500 and a thermal scope worth £5000. The nv is great but the thermal is in a different league. It accounts for foxes I wouldn't have shot with NV so to me well worth the extra investment
Nv or thermal
- Thread starter weatherby
- Start date
Steff
Well-Known Member
Can I ask a stupid question please?
If I understand correctly a digital NV device is also usable during daylight by switching the electronic mode. How is this with a thermal scope? My guess is that this will not work in daylight. So wouldn't a digital NV be more versatile for shooting and also for zeroing?
If I understand correctly a digital NV device is also usable during daylight by switching the electronic mode. How is this with a thermal scope? My guess is that this will not work in daylight. So wouldn't a digital NV be more versatile for shooting and also for zeroing?
Thermal works fine during daylight but as always you are dependent on temperature differential so if its a blazing hot day stuff may not show out as clearly. A lot of digital day/ night now especially some of the 4K stuff gives a nice day image comparable to a cheap optical scope and you can film shots in a nice image etc if thats your thing.
Horses for courses really if you want totally covert, ability to know when quarry is there where you may miss it with digital and have deep pockets the top end thermal scopes are where its at but they are items for hunting end of, to zero you need to have a heat source to shoot at be it a small disposable handwarmer, thermal tape or various other means of finding a point to zero on to.
If you want to shoot at night but fancy a scope that you can record , zero easily and use on the range for plinking/ non serious targets then have a look at the day night digital stuff that's out.
Personally next year I am looking at something like the Wulf 4K on my .243 as I want a multi use scope for foxing and the ability to double up for use stalking on my ground (within the legal day times allowed for deer of course). I could do this with an add on of course but I have been spoilt by having a Pard on my .22lr and its so nice to pick up the rifle and go without carrying extra kit with me.
Horses for courses really if you want totally covert, ability to know when quarry is there where you may miss it with digital and have deep pockets the top end thermal scopes are where its at but they are items for hunting end of, to zero you need to have a heat source to shoot at be it a small disposable handwarmer, thermal tape or various other means of finding a point to zero on to.
If you want to shoot at night but fancy a scope that you can record , zero easily and use on the range for plinking/ non serious targets then have a look at the day night digital stuff that's out.
Personally next year I am looking at something like the Wulf 4K on my .243 as I want a multi use scope for foxing and the ability to double up for use stalking on my ground (within the legal day times allowed for deer of course). I could do this with an add on of course but I have been spoilt by having a Pard on my .22lr and its so nice to pick up the rifle and go without carrying extra kit with me.
Are you serious the pards are a piece of sxxtMost people do until it's put into the field. On a mechanical (normal) scope, the controls have to be where they are and it has to be the size and shape it is.
To make an electro optical scope in the same footprint is completely nuts to me. You end up with a gigantic heavy scope with buttons by your eyeball, some more knobs and switches half way up and the focus miles away on the end of the objective.
With a properly designed electro optical scope all the controls are in one place and can be operated by one hand in the same position.
View attachment 233592
I took this photo when a customer came to compare their big scope with the comparatively tiny Pard. It does highlight the difference between designing for function and performance vs 'nostalgia'. The customer purchased a Pard.
Cheers
Clive
In what way(s) are the PARDs sxxt ?
Please be specific because there are thousands of people in the UK alone who have bought this piece of sxxt and think it's the dogs danglies.
Cheers
Bruce
A digital NV device is basically a video camera that can work in daylight like any normal camera, but can also "see" infra red light.
At night, if an infra red light is used instead of a traditional lamp, the camera can "see" the infra red light and produce a black and white image of whatever the infra red light is illuminating.
The downside with digital NV is that to get an image at night you must be illuminating the target with IR and the IR can spook potential quarry
A thermal device detects heat emitted from objects and that heat is emitted at all times of day and night so thermal device can work in daylight.
The major advantage of thermal is that it is totally covert - only the heat emitted by the target is detected and there is no need to illuminate the target in any way
However, thermal devices have much lower resolution than glass based optical devices (binoculars and riflescopes) and digital camera based day/night scopes, so a daytime thermal image will be much less sharp than the image of the same target viewed through binoculars or even a digital NV device.
In addition, in bright sunny weather, inanimate objects heat up and can be confused for stationary live animals
At night, a properly illuminated target viewed through a digital NV device will produce a sharper image than the same target viewed with a thermal device
As for zeroing, if we take a one inch dot at 100 yards as the target, then pretty much every glass scope on the market will give a sharp, clear image of the dot.
The best digital NV scopes in daylight mode will just about resolve the one inch dot but it won't appear anything like a sharp as with a glass scope.
A thermal scope would need a heated dot to be visible and although it would not be as clear and sharp an image as either the glass scope of the Digital NV scope it would more than good enough to be able to zero the rifle
Nobody uses a thermal riflescope for target work !!!
A thermal device would not be my first choice for daytime work, but it would almost always be my first choice for any work done in darkness
Cheers
Bruce
Steff
Well-Known Member
Thank you for this, Bruce,
a very comprehensive summary of the relevant issues!
When I mentioned daytime shooting I certainly didn‘t mean target shooting. I was referring to hunting when you go out in the evening when there is still light and then progressing into the dark hours.
a very comprehensive summary of the relevant issues!
When I mentioned daytime shooting I certainly didn‘t mean target shooting. I was referring to hunting when you go out in the evening when there is still light and then progressing into the dark hours.
Absolutely! We've had lots of customers buy them for the compact size and image quality.
I've been using a SA35 (as a spotter) and an SA45LRF (as a rifle scope on the .22 Hornet, .17 HMR and .22LR) for around a year now and they have been flawless!
Cheers
Clive
Hi weatherby,
I've just received an Iray FH35R that's proving very promising. It's a small pocketable unit with the same performance as some of the big 50mm spotters. Loads of other features too but my main interest is the built in LRF.
Like you I keep my shots sensible. 200 yards is a long way for the .22 Hornet and most are 40-150 in reality. The T-ceptor PRO 55 that I'm using on the rifle gives a shootable image on a Fox out to 450 yards. I don't need that range, but it gives me the luxury of a better image closer in.
What sort of magnification do you normally shoot on?
Cheers
Clive
Hmmm, can't agree with you Clive regarding the "standard scope thermal" layout. I have the Thermion2 XQ50, the head position is natural, no need for set back mounts or comb raisers. The menu buttons are simple & easy to use. The depth of field is excellent meaning I rarely, if ever need to re- focus.
I can trust the mounting system, ie 30mm rings with a robust clamping system that I can use my torque driver on to repeat zero between rifles.
I have never used the Pard thermal but I do have the NV008. This has been troublesome on my centrefires for losing zero so it is now on my fac airgun. The operation of the close together buttons at night are pain in the butt as is the menu system. Also the ir mounting on either side is a pain, on the left it's in the way of focus control, on the right it fouled my fingers on bolt operation on my Rem700 & Tikka T3X.
The on board ir is good for 150+yds but eats batteries like hell. For centrefire use I prefer the Wraith hd, with it's simpler menu system and top mounted ir. One of my shooting buddies now has one of my Wraiths too, having had problems with loss of zero with his Pard on his .223.
So in summary, after all my blather, I like & trust the layout of my Thermion.
Mike
I can trust the mounting system, ie 30mm rings with a robust clamping system that I can use my torque driver on to repeat zero between rifles.
I have never used the Pard thermal but I do have the NV008. This has been troublesome on my centrefires for losing zero so it is now on my fac airgun. The operation of the close together buttons at night are pain in the butt as is the menu system. Also the ir mounting on either side is a pain, on the left it's in the way of focus control, on the right it fouled my fingers on bolt operation on my Rem700 & Tikka T3X.
The on board ir is good for 150+yds but eats batteries like hell. For centrefire use I prefer the Wraith hd, with it's simpler menu system and top mounted ir. One of my shooting buddies now has one of my Wraiths too, having had problems with loss of zero with his Pard on his .223.
So in summary, after all my blather, I like & trust the layout of my Thermion.
Mike
ChrisPCarter
Well-Known Member
I use an Axion Key thermal spotter and ATN X Sight Pro 4K day/night vision as I liked the standard look of the scope on my classic .243 at the time. Had I been using a black tactical .223 which I’ve just bought I may not have been so fussy about all those ungainly looking mounts and the scope being pushed back over the stock with something like a Pard but at the time the ATN specs were much better too and probably still are. I still don’t like that look and have been happy with the ATN.
I don’t think I’d ever bother with the expense and downsides of going to a thermal scope for what I do, though I have had foxes run from the illumination.
If it was my job I might be able to justify using a thermal scope.
I don’t think I’d ever bother with the expense and downsides of going to a thermal scope for what I do, though I have had foxes run from the illumination.
If it was my job I might be able to justify using a thermal scope.
100%
Yet there's been thousands of Thermions sold far surpassing any other thermal brand by at least 10/1 ratio, for me anyway, so people must like the ergonomics of a tube rifle system, just like all standard day optical systems that use this format also...don't bin your tubed swaros yet boys...
Benefits of the tube system, TOTAL adjustability of eye relief and eye position, unlimited choice of mounts, dovetail, weaver, offset to account for even the most difficult of actions, my CZ527 was always a pig with any system, not no more! Fit any tube accessory/ weaver fitments as required. Aesthetically much more pleasing design on your rifle , not a lump of metal hanging in the air to get near your eye...
The masses think otherwise...
ChrisPCarter
Well-Known Member
Spot on.
I bought my ATN for ease of swapping between different guns/mounts without looking out of place.
I think a Pard with a toilet roll extension to the eyepiece could work and wouldn’t really spoil the looks
Just imagine how well it would look on a blaser, the toilet roll too...Spot on.
I bought my ATN for ease of swapping between different guns/mounts without looking out of place.
I think a Pard with a toilet roll extension to the eyepiece could work and wouldn’t really spoil the looks
Blaser with PARD and patented green ASDA milk bottle top aperture reduction device
Copyright "Freeforester"
I am informed there is absolutely no zero shift with this set up.
Cheers
Bruce
Copyright "Freeforester"
I am informed there is absolutely no zero shift with this set up.
Cheers
Bruce
Even though we have digressed a bit from the original topic, it's worth mentioning that pretty much all these tube format scopes have much shorter eye relief than an optical scope.
One that I tried had a claimed 50mm eye relief (still 40mm shorter than a stalking scope) but when I tested it, to be able to see the entire display I needed to have my eyebrow almost touching the ocular part...that's without the protective eye bellows.
So you need to factor in that you might need to mount your tube format electro optical scope 40-60mm further back on the rifle than a conventional day scope. Probably fine if you are of slight build and don't mind leaning into it a bit or not seeing the whole display. Failing that you need to order the special reach back mounts to have it mounted properly.
Cheers
Clive
One that I tried had a claimed 50mm eye relief (still 40mm shorter than a stalking scope) but when I tested it, to be able to see the entire display I needed to have my eyebrow almost touching the ocular part...that's without the protective eye bellows.
So you need to factor in that you might need to mount your tube format electro optical scope 40-60mm further back on the rifle than a conventional day scope. Probably fine if you are of slight build and don't mind leaning into it a bit or not seeing the whole display. Failing that you need to order the special reach back mounts to have it mounted properly.
Cheers
Clive
Overlay
Well-Known Member
Well at least it’s not on the R8 pro success.Blaser with PARD and patented green ASDA milk bottle top aperture reduction device
Copyright "Freeforester"
View attachment 234090
I am informed there is absolutely no zero shift with this set up.
Cheers
Bruce
That would have been a step tooooooo farSimilar threads
