Older Rifle Help

[Dave Lakes]

After reading the thread about old rifles, I’m thinking about getting some nice old rifle from the good old days when penny sweets were half a penny.

There seem to be the same models cropping up for less than £500, which is fine, but I want to be sure that if I had to replace a badly maintained barrel, it was both possible and economical (ie I could just buy a new S&L instead).

I take it barrel cost would be roughly the same for all, so what would that likely be?

Secondly of the following do any ring alarm bells as being a pain to re-barrel (or are they known to just be crap rifles).

BSA- Deluxe Sporter, CF2
Parker Hale- Safari
Mauser- 98
Winchester- Lightweight, 70
Sako- A7, 75, L61R

Any thoughts welcome, including “just stick with the new rifle”.

 

[Taff]

See a lot of old rifles here re barreling is very rarely required unless you want to change the caliber, Don,t confuse the Winchester light weight with the ultra light which was a better rifle.

 

[VSS]

BSA- Deluxe Sporter, CF2
Parker Hale- Safari
Mauser- 98
Winchester- Lightweight, 70
Sako- A7, 75, L61R

Any thoughts welcome, including “just stick with the new rifle”.

Parker-Hale Safari Deluxe. Lovely rifles. I have two of them, and the most expensive one cost me £175. What's not to like? An affordable classic!

 

[Dave881]

Of the rifles you have listed there I would go for a sako 75 personally, had one in the past and they are great rifles, shouldn't be a problem to rebarrel if it was even needed.

 

[griff]

After reading the thread about old rifles, I’m thinking about getting some nice old rifle from the good old days when penny sweets were half a penny.

There seem to be the same models cropping up for less than £500, which is fine, but I want to be sure that if I had to replace a badly maintained barrel, it was both possible and economical (ie I could just buy a new S&L instead).

I take it barrel cost would be roughly the same for all, so what would that likely be?

Secondly of the following do any ring alarm bells as being a pain to re-barrel (or are they known to just be crap rifles).

BSA- Deluxe Sporter, CF2
Parker Hale- Safari
Mauser- 98
Winchester- Lightweight, 70
Sako- A7, 75, L61R

Any thoughts welcome, including “just stick with the new rifle”.

The CF2's had dreadful triggers, but the action was slick.
The Model 70 was a bit like a mossberg just unfinished, but did have a superb replacement trigger available (Timney).
Sako 75 great action and good trigger options but very little in replacement stocks.

£500-£700 for a rebarrell..

 

[lochty]

Tikka LSA 55 if you can find one.

 

[saddler]

I know someone who picked up a old Parker Hale .270 for under £100, inc. scope just before the WuFlu thing hit

The amount of deer he's put in the freezer with it is impressive - one day he'd dropped so many he had to go & buy another chest freezer.
He says it's still hovering at a touch under an MOA when he does his part

Don't dismiss stuff coz it's not new - in a lot of cases the only difference is 30 years and a plastic cover, to paraphrase an old comedy skit

 

[saddler]

The CF2's had dreadful triggers, but the action was slick.
The Model 70 was a bit like a mossberg just unfinished, but did have a superb replacement trigger available (Timney).
Sako 75 great action and good trigger options but very little in replacement stocks.

£500-£700 for a rebarrell..

My little old Mod 70 has an amazing trigger. Not too shabby at all for something made in 1938. You can even load it from a stripper clip too.

 

[Heym SR20]

All those mentioned have barrels that are threaded and screwed into the action. Lothar Walther make a number of pre threaded and pre chambered barrels that cam readily swapped with the existing barrel. And they are not silly money. Perhaps not as good as a top Shilen etc, but good enough for most competition shooters.

However, there are plenty of good rifles available, that with a good clean and minimal feetling will outlive you.

You have however missed two real gems that you should look at

- The Mannlicher Shoeneurs - the ones with the bolt handle half way down the action. These are truly beautiful actions and yet there are plenty for not silly money. Many of the post war ones can be had in modern calibres, most of the prewar ones will be in 6.5x54 Mannlicher. With a 140gn bullet this will do everything a 6.5 Creedmoor or 55 will do, and they were made with a fast twist for heavy for calibre bullets.

And the Lee Speeds - there were lots of Enfield action Gentleman and officers rifles built in 303 up till the 1930s and did double duty as stalking rifles at home and for two and four legged game when you were serving his majesty in warmer climates. After the war many Lee Enfields were sporterised - some remaining as 303, others in 308 / 7.62 doing duty as target rifles, sporting rifles or a marksmen rifles for police and military.

The Mannlicher M Series from the mid 1970s were good rifles but slightly let down by a polymer rotary magazine and a barrel that was shrink fitted into the action thus making it difficult to change.

Truth be told, unless a rifle has been in the hands of a contractor or a stalker on a large estate, or has been used for target or range shooting, most have been kept in the cabinet and used once or twice a year on an annual stalking holiday, but will have had long periods of idleness whilst their owner was having families, busy earning a living etc etc. I suspect most that are pretty clean will have had single boxes of cartridges through them. The biggest danger will have rust if put away dirty, but run a rod through the barrel and most such damage is easily seen.

 

[enfieldspares]

CF2 takes the same profile 'scope mounts as the Remington 700 and was designed from the outset to do so. Knibbs at "The Countrystore" will have some spares. These can be checked in the appropriate section of his website. It also gives prices which is a huge, huge help.

Norman Clarke will be able to do Parker Hale re-barreling. Check what the cost would be on as in truth the cost from any quality gunsmith (such as Norman) will often exceed the cost of the same make and model of rifle bought secondhand with a barrel that doesn't need to be swappped out.

Mauser 98. Yes I have one, iron sights, flag safety, made in Czechoslovakia in the 1950s and in .270 WCF calibre. Unless you want "old school" and it's ready to go as is you can agaim sink money into the project that you'll never recoup on re-sale.

I don't know anything about the Winchester or SAKO rifles. Best value IMHO if you are OK with .270 WCF are GOOD CONDITION Holland & Holland "shot and regulated" SAKO and Husqvarna rifles. But they must be on good order. They make not even £600 with Swarovski fixed power 'scopes!

 

[nun_hunter]

The CF2's had dreadful triggers, but the action was slick.
The Model 70 was a bit like a mossberg just unfinished, but did have a superb replacement trigger available (Timney).
Sako 75 great action and good trigger options but very little in replacement stocks.

£500-£700 for a rebarrell..

I took my CF2 apart, tiny bit of polishing and adjusted it and now it's as good as my Tikkas. Zero creep and a crisp clean break. Maybe I was lucky.

 

[Dave Lakes]

Thanks all, you’ve confirmed my hopes that there are bargains to be had, and bags of character with these old rifles. Most of the stuff I listed was less than £200 with a scope, it’s crazy. I’ll see what I can get my hands on

 

[User00040]

Sako L461 or A1, the perfect .222/.223 (50-63 grain bullets only) rifle.

 

[alberta boy]

Any of the rifles listed are easy to rebarrel , but it shouldn't be hard to find one with a good bore . All of them are good solid firearms , I'd look for one that fits you properly over any particular model . Let us know what you end up with .

AB

 

[Heym SR20]

Couple of further thoughts:

Be choosy - choose the best you can. Go for higher grades if you can - they will have been built with more care and probably better looked after. Try and avoid rifles that have buggered around with. Most were not glass bedded, but would have had steel pillars. Plenty will have been so called “bedded” - i would leave those for somebody else. You want a blank canvas. Ideally the screws should be tight when aligned, but over time wood can shrink giving loose bedding, which can cause issues. Easily fixed, but probably move on. Good honest wear to bluing I wouldn’t worry too much. A lot of blue wears at the muzzle as they go in and out of slips.

But if the stock looks its been bounced around dinged, dented etc its been abused.

I have been rereading some old rifle reviews from the late 1960’s and early 1970’s. There is nothing much new. They certainly understood accurate rifles and how to achieve it. But expectations were a little different - open sights were still very much in use and a 6x was a powerful scope. A deer rifle that did a one inch group at 100 was accurate with factory ammo, 2” was more than acceptable. These days we expect a bit better - factory ammo is better, and better optics all help. But most old rifles I have played with all shoot well.

 

[maxtheflyinghorse]

Can’t say much about other guns but mod 70 light weight I have one in .223 and love it. Surprised Winchester mod 70 aren’t that popular a here in the UK. I got two of them one in .223 that is the push feed light weight and a classic super express in.375 H&H magnum.

 

[enfieldspares]

I got this for £350 (no 'scope as that wasn't in the price but it did include the Redfield rings). Parker-Hale M81 Classic in .30/06 from Joe Beatham at Gunshop EB. The iron sighted rifle my son is using in the picture is a Czech .270 WCF Mauser 98 made in the 1950s. It cost £60 out of Holt's maybe now eight years or so ago.

 

[Pedro]

To avoid problems re-barrelling a rifle, new(ish) or old, the thing to do is to choose a rifle that simply doesn't need re-barrelling. For every well used example of a late 20th century example, there will likely be many more hardly used examples. Decide what rifle you want, then hold out until you find that gun that has been bought by a budding stalker, who had a couple of outings, then found golf or kept getting his wife pregnant or something so it sat in the cabinet for 5 years. Come renewal time, he used it another couple of times, to prolong his certificate thinking he would get into it, so it then sat in the cabinet another five years before eventually he decided to move it on. This now old model rifle then sat in an RFD's line-up for a good while before being picked up by a stalker as a second rifle, just in case. It got a bit of use but eventually was superseded by the first rifle which became the standby rifle when he got a new model. Then it sat in a less salubrious RFD's bargain rack.....until you came along and discovered the rifle of your dreams, and it hasn't hardly made treble figures in terms of rounds through it.

I'm rabbiting on, but you get the gist. There's a good rifle out there somewhere that won't need re-barrelling probably for the rest of your life! Just make sure you can recognise a good 'un.

 

[icedog]

Contrary to a thought a few others have expressed, I would suggest not dismissing out of hand every hunting rifle with a bruised and/or scratched up stock, or other cosmetic issues. In many instances, those can be excellent firearms which have seen many years of hunting, but very few rounds through them during those years. I know several hunters who shoot a couple rounds before the beginning of hunting season, and just a few more if they are lucky enough to score a kill or two during the season. Do that for 20,40, or even 60 years, and the barrel remains good for another several thousand rounds.

If the action is in good working order, the rifling sharp, and the bore cleans up nice and shiny, those firearms often represent excellent buys. The cosmetic imperfections are usually an easy fix, and doing it yourself can be an enjoyable, satisfying, and instructive hobby. The majority of my current 40+ long guns are probably 50-70 years old (a few newer, a few older), and all are completely reliable and sufficiently accurate for field use. Have fun shopping, and if you're really fortunate, you'll find something that fits you, that you like, and that maybe even has a bit known history and a soul.

 

[tusker]

I bought a Parker Hale Safari in 270 about 10 years ago for £60 it has taken game from Scotland to Africa and many countries inbetween. I did replace the trigger with a timny. Great rifle that now belongs to my nephew. I know of a PH in 243 close by that has hardly had a box of ammo through it, not many of those old rifles will be shot out but the barrels may not have been looked after.
Tusker