Out of control dogs

[Quixote]

What is it about some people who seem to think an untrained dog is a source of amusement?

We have an acquaintance who recently lost their German Shepherd bitch. She was a failed guide dog, and had a lovely soft nature with a great recall.

They recently acquired a replacement Shepherd, however. The new one is a couple of years old, completely untrained, and they insist on repeatedly letting it off the lead along our farm track. So far it's chased several deer, and disappeared on two occasions for over forty minutes each time.

The damn thing is a bloody nuisance, and they think it's funny. When they were told it was a candidate for being shot if it was found in with stock, even that was met with indifference.

It baffles me how some people can be so thoroughly obtuse

 

[Bo Diddley]

Yep.
A few dogs have been attacked in Thetford Forest that I am aware of recently by out-of-control dogs.
The owners of the dangerous dogs are always unconcerned about the behaviour.
The police are involved with two. One dog that was attacked was an FC Rangers tracking dog, while it was at heel by his side .

 

[Tom270]

I got a 22 month rescue Shepherd many years ago, no training no recall and a nightmare a mate a police dog handler trained me to train the dog and he became the best dog anyone could have. He could find anything take directions at a distance walk to heel on or off lead.
He had been taken by his 3rd owner to the vet to be destroyed as he was unmanageable.

 

[muddy42]

One of my pet hates. I'm aware of two instances of sheep and deer being killed. But its more than that. Livestock have evolved to have a mistrust of dogs and wolves, even the sight of a dog can cause them distress. This is not what you need at this time of year when stress can cause them not to get pregnant. Of course its impossible to link low fertility to dog walkers the previous November. Also dogs can affect all kinds of wildlife or ground nesting birds.

Personally I think dogs should be at heel or if they cant do that on a lead all the time apart from the odd burst around a defined area like a garden to do their business.

 

[Smellydog]

Winds me right up, half the dogs I see and their owners need a bloody good whip.
A land owners German got shot mauling three tennents sheep that then went for the shepherds. The cow of a landlady has now terminated their tenancy after decades on there. The shepherd took that dog back many many times!
It's never the dog owners fault is it....
Idiots.

 

[muddy42]

Winds me right up, half the dogs I see and their owners need a bloody good whip.
A land owners German got shot mauling three tennents sheep that then went for the shepherds. The cow of a landlady has now terminated their tenancy after decades on there. The shepherd took that dog back many many times!
It's never the dog owners fault is it....
Idiots.

Sad story. Hopefully the police were involved

 

[B&W FOX]

It seems to be a daily occurrence when some half wit has lost their untrained dog in the Chiltern woods judging by the number of weekly post's on social media.

Why don't they put a airtag on its collar so they can track it's whereabouts on their mobile phone, as they spend most of their lives looking at it and not what the dog's upto.
That would be too easy though.

 

[Freeforester]

The imposition of a £100 per annum licence fee for pet dogs would go a fair way to addressing the apparent lack of responsible dog ownership.

It tends not to be working dogs which are the cause of the problem, much less working owners.

 

[muddy42]

Another of my pet hates is "dog exercise fields." Basically its farmers charging people to stand their in their Ugg boots whilst their dog runs batsh!t crazy in a field with high fences and play with any other dogs there. Dogs like black and white. How can they tell the difference between this and a field with livestock in it. Its basically setting dogs up to worry livestock.

 

[Quixote]

And still it just doesn't sink in

 

[tackb]

it generally isn't dogs that are the issue it's 'fur babies' !

 

[MarinePMI]

I got a 22 month rescue Shepherd many years ago, no training no recall and a nightmare a mate a police dog handler trained me to train the dog and he became the best dog anyone could have. He could find anything take directions at a distance walk to heel on or off lead.
He had been taken by his 3rd owner to the vet to be destroyed as he was unmanageable.

We have a saying here in the US "There are no bad horses, just bad riders".

The same applies to dogs in most cases (same as horses).

 

[Mountain Bug]

We have a saying here in the US "There are no bad horses, just bad riders".

The same applies to dogs in most cases (same as horses).

I'm afraid that I have to disagree. I've known a few horses....and dogs, that were real d*cks and it had nothing to do with the owners.

Scott

 

[Rafter]

But its more than that. Livestock have evolved to have a mistrust of dogs and wolves, even the sight of a dog can cause them distress. This is not what you need at this time of year when stress can cause them not to get pregnant.

Makes you wonder how the 60 million sheep in NZ - all of whom get moved around by dogs, manage to have baby sheep so regularly.
Must be different sheep, or dogs, or something.

 

[Bo Diddley]

Makes you wonder how the 60 million sheep in NZ - all of whom get moved around by dogs, manage to have baby sheep so regularly.
Must be different sheep, or dogs, or something.

Yep, they use special sheepdogs, so no problem. (see attached photo)

 

[Rafter]

OK.
I must live in the wrong part of the country for them.
Thanks for the clarification.

 

[GlennUK]

Makes you wonder how the 60 million sheep in NZ - all of whom get moved around by dogs, manage to have baby sheep so regularly.
Must be different sheep, or dogs, or something.

Maybe its to do with the management of the sheep and dog/s, as opposed to just (NZ) sheep liking any dogs chasing them.

FWIW from what i have seen of dogs working sheep they are under control of the shepherd, whereas dogs i have seen chasing deer tend not to be under control and act in a very different manner as far as i can subjectively see.

We have a neighbour in the parish who has two GS, who frequently get out and have done for some years. Recently they have attacked/injured/killed animals which were being kept as pets. In one case the owner of the dogs apparently knew they had attacked and injured a pet sheep and failed to inform the owners at the time to ensure the animal was cared for.

 

[Rafter]

The part I was intrigued by was "even the sight of dogs can cause them distress".
Seems just a tiny bit overblown. Not sure how you went from there (my response) to some suggestion that sheep like dogs chasing them. Try and colour between the lines.

 

[GlennUK]

The part I was intrigued by was "even the sight of dogs can cause them distress".
Seems just a tiny bit overblown. Not sure how you went from there (my response) to some suggestion that sheep like dogs chasing them. Try and colour between the lines.

The key point i was making is that its about context.

A shepherd and their dog behave differently from what i have seen, to a loose, out of control dog chasing sheep.

Its also likley that shepherds are mindful of when and how they use sheep dogs, taking into account the point others have made about the impact of stress on fertility.

Those who have direct experience can probably shed more informed light on such things.

Re sheep and sight of dogs, i can see how this might be the case, we have herds of fallow right up to our garden fence, when the dogs are let out into the garden the deer certainly respond!

 

[muddy42]

The part I was intrigued by was "even the sight of dogs can cause them distress".
Seems just a tiny bit overblown. Not sure how you went from there (my response) to some suggestion that sheep like dogs chasing them. Try and colour between the lines.

Morning Rafter, I tried to get across that this is only a theory and hard to prove. However it is fairly well accepted by scientists that stress in animals triggers physiological, hormonal, and behavioral responses that significantly affect fertility at all stages, ultimately prioritizing survival over reproduction. The shepherd here now makes sure that tupping happens in the more remoter fields after having a few really poor scanning years in busier areas. Same 'closed' flock.