Peregrine VLR4 non lead terminal performance field update

[Edinburgh Rifles]

I was asked to show some photos of textbook heart/lung shot performance a while back.
I tend to shoot shoulders to pin the animals down (especially sneaky Sika)
Finally getting round to putting the photos we have up.

Shoulder shots and those that involve bone invariably demonstrate better consistency in expansion as the denser material resistance opens the monolithic bullet better than a chest shot where at best you have skin then a single, spongy rib bone before less dense sponge of the lung.

Details:
Red deer approx 65-70kg larder weight
Shot at approx 100m
.308 136gr VLR4 at approx 2840fps MV
Entry RHS, no shoulder, one rib
Exit LHS, one rib,scapula
Pass through both lungs above heart.
Deer fully aware, travelled approximately 3-5m following impact.

Externally there was a small 2-3 cm entry and 2-3cm exit.
Blood trail present but not required as it fell within its own shadow.
Carcase was skinned and butchered.
Photos showing minimal carcase damage.
Entry RHS
Entry inside chest
Exit inside chest
Exit LHS
Exit intramuscular between shoulder and chest

Very little bruising,
Very little subcutaneous, intramuscular blood clotting or blood froth
Clean entrance and single exit with complete pass through.
Damage around bullet hole restricted to single digit CM.
No linear deflection or bullet break up.

No metal present in any wound tract through muscle.

Clean carcase and quick, humane death.

New stock from SA just arrived
Proof House taking their time with ammo but we aim to launch a wide Factory cartridge range at The Scottish Game Fair 1-3rd July, Scone Palace.

Drop me a line of you have any questions

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Last picture is with shoulder peeled back away from chest

 

[Smellydog]

I appreciate that info.
Thanks.

 

[User00033]

Have you got any photos of deer shot at Very Long Range that the VLR4 is promoted by Mr Oberholzer as being so good at, but is very reluctant to demonstrate?

 

[User00040]

Have you got any photos of deer shot at Very Long Range that the VLR4 is promoted by Mr Oberholzer as being so good at, but is very reluctant to demonstrate?

Very Long Range is a fluid concept, it varies more than gender

 

[User00033]

Well anyway when I asked him he got cross at the very thought of shooting something at 400m as it is unethical. Anyway, at 100m there’s no complaints from the look of these photos. Nice and clean.

 

[User00040]

Well anyway when I asked him he got cross at the very thought of shooting something at 400m as it is unethical. Anyway, at 100m there’s no complaints from the look of these photos. Nice and clean.

What?! Thought the whole point of the high BC design was carrying more energy downrange.

Even Barnes TTSX work OK at that range given good placement.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

What?! Thought the whole point of the high BC design was carrying more energy downrange.

Even Barnes TTSX work OK at that range given good placement.

Oh how naive….
High BC bullets are made to sell more bullets to people who want high BC bullets but will never utilise the “long range” potential

Bit like tyres rated to 150mph…

 

[Smellydog]

Fair comment that.
My average range on almost anything shot with a rifle comes in under 100yds.

 

[Leec6.5]

I was asked to show some photos of textbook heart/lung shot performance a while back.
I tend to shoot shoulders to pin the animals down (especially sneaky Sika)
Finally getting round to putting the photos we have up.

Shoulder shots and those that involve bone invariably demonstrate better consistency in expansion as the denser material resistance opens the monolithic bullet better than a chest shot where at best you have skin then a single, spongy rib bone before less dense sponge of the lung.

Details:
Red deer approx 65-70kg larder weight
Shot at approx 100m
.308 136gr VLR4 at approx 2840fps MV
Entry RHS, no shoulder, one rib
Exit LHS, one rib,scapula
Pass through both lungs above heart.
Deer fully aware, travelled approximately 3-5m following impact.

Externally there was a small 2-3 cm entry and 2-3cm exit.
Blood trail present but not required as it fell within its own shadow.
Carcase was skinned and butchered.
Photos showing minimal carcase damage.
Entry RHS
Entry inside chest
Exit inside chest
Exit LHS
Exit intramuscular between shoulder and chest

Very little bruising,
Very little subcutaneous, intramuscular blood clotting or blood froth
Clean entrance and single exit with complete pass through.
Damage around bullet hole restricted to single digit CM.
No linear deflection or bullet break up.

No metal present in any wound tract through muscle.

Clean carcase and quick, humane death.

New stock from SA just arrived
Proof House taking their time with ammo but we aim to launch a wide Factory cartridge range at The Scottish Game Fair 1-3rd July, Scone Palace.

Drop me a line of you have any questions

Thats real nice

But you forget Ed copper doesn’t kill according to the masses

 

[User00033]

Oh how naive….
High BC bullets are made to sell more bullets to people who want high BC bullets but will never utilise the “long range” potential

Bit like tyres rated to 150mph…

Ooo, biting cynicism!

High BC bullets are made for people that shoot them at ranges where every ballistic advantage counts, be they long-range target shooters or hunters. There’s a lot of us. Berger were the ones who really took the lead and everyone else followed.

If you don’t hunt at long range but still choose to use a high BC bullet - maybe you take the occasional shot at 200 yards or a little more - then there’s no penalty, is there. In fact there’s only upside. So I’ve never really got the argument about BC being unnecessary bling.

The marketing of these Peregrine bullets is a classic case of pushing BC and “long range”. It’s in all the blurb. The bit that really grates me is the claim about 1600 ft./s minimum expansion, and “unparalleled” performance. However if you ask for the evidence of this, none is forthcoming. But we’ve already been through that… (For a manufacturer that appears to see 400m as unethical I cannot see the point of claiming an expansion velocity that equates to something closer to 1000m!)

The way I look at these bullets is that the smart design and high BC all helps make for a better outcome in typical Scottish hill and English field conditions. There’s no doubt they killed cleanly at short range, so 95% of your customers should be just fine. Where the acceptable range threshold for clean killing truly lies is an unknown because it doesn’t appear to have been tested (Or maybe not publicly disclosed).

 

[Lancaster]

Ooo, biting cynicism!

High BC bullets are made for people that shoot them at ranges where every ballistic advantage counts, be they long-range target shooters or hunters. There’s a lot of us. Berger were the ones who really took the lead and everyone else followed.

If you don’t hunt at long range but still choose to use a high BC bullet - maybe you take the occasional shot at 200 yards or a little more - then there’s no penalty, is there. In fact there’s only upside. So I’ve never really got the argument about BC being unnecessary bling.

The marketing of these Peregrine bullets is a classic case of pushing BC and “long range”. It’s in all the blurb. The bit that really grates me is the claim about 1600 ft./s minimum expansion, and “unparalleled” performance. However if you ask for the evidence of this, none is forthcoming. But we’ve already been through that… (For a manufacturer that appears to see 400m as unethical I cannot see the point of claiming an expansion velocity that equates to something closer to 1000m!)

The way I look at these bullets is that the smart design and high BC all helps make for a better outcome in typical Scottish hill and English field conditions. There’s no doubt they killed cleanly at short range, so 95% of your customers should be just fine. Where the acceptable range threshold for clean killing truly lies is an unknown because it doesn’t appear to have been tested (Or maybe not publicly disclosed).

You aren't a UK based deer stalker.
In the main, in the UK, we are deer stalkers, not deer snipers, you haven't got a dog in this fight, end of conversation.

 

[User00033]

That’s why you’re being sold bullets designed for long-range plains game in Africa!

I love comments like yours @Lancaster, they are deeply amusing.

 

[Lancaster]

That’s why you’re being sold bullets designed for long-range plains game in Africa!

I love comments like yours @Lancaster, they are deeply amusing.

You could always ask for a name change, would the "Deer Snipers Directory", be more in kilter for some of our American and Antipodean deer shooting cousins?

 

[308tikka]

You aren't a UK based deer stalker.
In the main, in the UK, we are deer stalkers, not deer snipers, you haven't got a dog in this fight, end of conversation.

God this is depressing.

Notwithstanding the arrogance of ‘UK BASED’ - this is an open global forum - telling someone they havent got a dog in the fight is highly presumptious and frankly just educates everyone how little you know.

If unimportant, then the vast majority of UK based stalkers should be happy firing proverbial bricks, as its only 100m or less.... why not revert to round nose or even cap and ball !

Except some of us actually want to have the best available bullet which will put deer down as quickly as possible, on known aim point, known expansion so informed decisions can be made...

by professionals....

 

[Lancaster]

God this is depressing.

Notwithstanding the arrogance of ‘UK BASED’ - this is an open global forum - telling someone they havent got a dog in the fight is highly presumptious and frankly just educates everyone how little you know.

If unimportant, then the vast majority of UK based stalkers should be happy firing proverbial bricks, as its only 100m or less.... why not revert to round nose or even cap and ball !

Except some of us actually want to have the best available bullet which will put deer down as quickly as possible, on known aim point, known expansion so informed decisions can be made...

by professionals....

When someone posts about non lead bullets from a country that hasn't even considered a move to non lead and finds fault with bullets that happily kill all UK legal species, I stand by what I have posted.

If you want to pass miniscule lead fragments into the food chain, crack on, I don't, I can't, the game dealer insists on non lead, it kills deer just as well as lead.
Instead of getting arsey, take a wee bit more water with your dram...;.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

You aren't a UK based deer stalker.
In the main, in the UK, we are deer stalkers, not deer snipers, you haven't got a dog in this fight, end of conversation.

I have a dog in this, I am a UK deer stalker. I also shoot deer at extended distances, as do a number of people. Get in your box. He's likely got more experience, certainly more than you and I. I dare say more than the vast majority on this forum.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

When someone posts about non lead bullets from a country that hasn't even considered a move to non lead and finds fault with bullets that happily kill all UK legal species, I stand by what I have posted.

If you want to pass miniscule lead fragments into the food chain, crack on, I don't, I can't, the game dealer insists on non lead, it kills deer just as well as lead.
Instead of getting arsey, take a wee bit more water with your dram...;.

Once again, our dodgyknees has tested many lead free alternatives.
Copper does have failings, massive ones at that. It IS NOT SUITABLE for shooting deer at distance. So off that alone, it clearly doesn't kill as well does it...

Why has this forum become over run with tits like yourself? You and Stephen should start your own group where you can both toss eachother off over copper

 

[User00033]

It’s ok @Lancaster… I forgive you.

While I’m busy forgiving you I am fitting a new sight to my not at all long range deer rifle…

This one… used for up close and personal red stag and boar stalking in ways you could only ever dream of! Don’t shoot them until you can practically kiss them on the lips!



BTW, yes the copper bullet issue has come up here so let’s just set you right on that. Secondly I find whiskey utterly disgusting and it’s only 10:30 in the morning which is early even for a brown ale!

So pull your head in and understand I will comment on anything I bloody well feel like when it comes to bullet design and construction, and the performance claims sometimes made by their manufacturers. It is something that is very interesting to me and I can see fantastic strides forward being made by clever people like Yew Tree who are listening to the overall needs of the market, and not just traditionalist stalkers who can’t see past the end of their nose.

My GST bill arrived in the post this morning so you’ve got full grumpy in return!

 

[hendrix's rifle]

God this is depressing.

Notwithstanding the arrogance of ‘UK BASED’ - this is an open global forum - telling someone they havent got a dog in the fight is highly presumptious and frankly just educates everyone how little you know.

If unimportant, then the vast majority of UK based stalkers should be happy firing proverbial bricks, as its only 100m or less.... why not revert to round nose or even cap and ball !

Except some of us actually want to have the best available bullet which will put deer down as quickly as possible, on known aim point, known expansion so informed decisions can be made...

by professionals....

He's too busy to give a valid reply by no doubt trying to find something to undermine you... What a sad, sad w .

Going to be honest, I'd rather lose the firearms and go to spears or bows, I'd laugh at these pro copper ballsacks then
Can't have a spear because you've made it from lead, ooo suck it