Peregrine VLR4 non lead terminal performance field update
- Thread starter Edinburgh Rifles
- Start date
As long as my post about having certain people make their own forum first gets out and they do...
To the OP - apologies
samdk
Well-Known Member
Quite a daft response to what @dodgyknees commented, which was very accurate I might add!
My grandfather once told me that it was better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are an idiot, than it is to open it and let them know.
Perhaps you should implement his principal as it may benefit you greatly.
Fair play bud, I'm a traditional stalker, and at my age if it isn't at the end of my nose, I can't see the bloody thing
Out of interest @dodgyknees is there anyone at your end of the world having a crack at making projectiles? Seems like you guys have more of a culture of long range shooting than we do. It’s a shame to hear your also being pushed in the direction of lead free.
It is a concern that so many people do want to shoot deer at extended range, especially in this crowded little country. One US based podcaster summed it up perfectly for me, “You should never think about shooting at an animal at long range unless you have put literally hundreds of rounds down range at long distance targets, long distance hunting is a lifestyle that you have to live and breathe and not as simple as talking the talk in order to walk the walk”
I tend to keep my shots on deer below 250m, the last 5 deer I’ve shot have all been roe bucks at around 40m, headshot and neck shot whilst stalking in long grass and heavy woodland cover. The rws evo green bullets I’m using have performed really well, however one buck did have puncture wounds to the loins and haunches from bullet fragments, and I retrieved a nasty metal leaf from the loin and a tooth fragment from the rump. They work well on body shots too.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
This is hilarious
I have shot lowland reds out to over 300yds with copper and guess what …………. It died!
Lead will get banned and for those who are still in the dark ages need to get their head out of their arse and get theor head around it simple as!!
What people do in other countries is their business, they are not stalking deer here in our climate, weather conditions or scenarios we are here!, While I appreciate other peoples opinions when it comes to copper ammunition unfortunately mostly they do not mirror my own experience so as far as I’m concerned they crack on in their country I’ll crack on in mine.
I do hope their are exemption’s for smaller calibres and the like, but for deer stalkers there is no excuse really.
In fact i cant wait for the day to come, I can sit back crack a beer and smugly say I told you so!
In fact I told you so 10 years ago So it’s not as if you were not warned or had time to get your head around it really is it there
I have shot lowland reds out to over 300yds with copper and guess what …………. It died!
Lead will get banned and for those who are still in the dark ages need to get their head out of their arse and get theor head around it simple as!!
What people do in other countries is their business, they are not stalking deer here in our climate, weather conditions or scenarios we are here!, While I appreciate other peoples opinions when it comes to copper ammunition unfortunately mostly they do not mirror my own experience so as far as I’m concerned they crack on in their country I’ll crack on in mine.
I do hope their are exemption’s for smaller calibres and the like, but for deer stalkers there is no excuse really.
In fact i cant wait for the day to come, I can sit back crack a beer and smugly say I told you so!
In fact I told you so 10 years ago So it’s not as if you were not warned or had time to get your head around it really is it there
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I hope @Edinburgh Rifles doesn’t see this as further thread derailment and, confession time, I’m a stalker of just a handful of years with DSC1 and a handful of deer to my name, but there seems to be a lot of cross-purposed arguing going on from the anti non-toxic side. Copper’s ( or tin’s or whatever non-lead) ability to challenge lead is moot when a lead ban seems an almost certainty. The choice seems likely to be taken away from us, despite how shaky some of the science appears to be. BASC get a continual bashing on here, but I’m pretty sure their stance is based on knowing it’s a done deal and the best they can hope for is mitigation and a place at the table when any exemptions are put in place. I am only going down the reloading route (promised myself I wouldn’t) to get a head start on copper, as my freedom to choose lead seems to be disappearing in the near future. Lack of choice sucks and we can all be jealous of countries that continue to use lead, but if we can’t use it, we’ve just got to get on with getting the best alternative we can.
Unfortunately the term has gained momentum and has stuck, plus toxicity is all relative.
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Not in my world.
Politically, many of us find ourselves now living in someone else’s world.Not in my world.
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Then change dealers or demand what you want.
We have millions available and have backed up marketing with real world performance reviews
Thread derailment and infantile Willy waving aside……
I’ll bite.
Are there any disadvantages with using non lead?
Yes, I believe there are.
I have discussed this at length in the quest for the all rounder 0-500m that maybe a smaller demographic seek.
You have the benefits of a highly penetrating solid bullet for pass through AND a expansive one for wound channel when used a short range. (0-300m), this was often achieved by using solids and a lead round for large game with thicker skinned game in Africa.
If using a semi frangible lead bullet what works at 50m may also work at 450m as it has the terminal velocity to maintain that break up and expansion causing enough organ damage and wound channel.
I do not believe that the same weight class of non lead bullet that achieves that in semi frangible lead form has the BC or Sectional Density to carry the same velocity at range AND achieve the results that you could get from an ELD-X or similar.
Which is why I have a nominal range limit of circa 350m with this rifle using the bullet above on most target quarry. (308 136gr at 2850ish)
Works fine on crows at 450…..
To be blunt my limit hasn’t changed with lead to non lead.
I do not feel I have enough brute force downrange to get the performance with lighter or smaller bullets.
I have always gone down the route of more energy than potentially required for longer shots otherwise you lose the margin for error.
Especially where the risk of lower accuracy potential becomes exponentially higher the further you go out.
I am confident of first round hits in sensible conditions past that but having shot gongs at range the difference in impact energy and report from the gong out at 4-5-600yds doesn’t give me the confidence that I will get a high performance from anything but a highly frangible bullet.
So what is the work around?
Use a larger non lead projectile at a higher velocity
You get the terminal velocity you need at range and the increased terminal energy and expansion characteristics give you the wound channel you need.
That’s why I have a 300 Norma Magnum and a 203gr load.
Any animal up to a 200-250kg wet weight hit accurately with a 203gr bullet starting out at 3200fps is and does fall over very quickly.
If that isn’t an option then keep using lead and stop moaning about the inadequacies of one style, of one type of bullet, in one material that doesn’t suit an application that represents single digit percentile of worldwide hunting.
It’s not all doom and gloom
Not everyone is being forced to use non lead but if you are there are lots of options that work, no work well, and are available in both ammo (that doesn’t destroy rifles…) AND reloading components (that can be posted, AND we have done load data that doesn’t blow primers for you…)
Next post ….terminal performance at 1600fps terminal velocity…..
samdk
Well-Known Member
I just do not understand what so many peoples issue is with the shooting of deer at “long range”, lead free or not!
Firstly what do you consider long range? Most people saying this mooch around a wood shooting muntjac at 40 yards with a 308, purely as a hobby and don’t see past this scenario.
On one of the farms I control the deer on the closest I have ever shot one is around 300 yards. Not because I enjoy it or enjoy boasting about it but because that is the closest I can bloody get and the deer need culling! I regularly produce 2” or less groups at 500 yards with the rifle I use, including cold bore shots so shooting a fallow deer with a near 8” kill area is no issue imo.
I think some people are quick to condemn shooting deer at long range simply because they have never had the need in their shooting experience, not considering the fact that other peoples shooting situations are not all like theirs and some do have the need.
IMHO “long range” is completely subjective depending on the following:
• Is there a need to shoot deer at a longer range and is it safe?
• Is your rifle and ammo capable/suitable?
• Do you have the capability, confidence and experience to place the shot?
• Are the weather conditions suitable?
• Is your shooting position/platform fit for an accurate shot at range.
• Can you put I right if you f**k the shot up?
(I have seen more shots f**ked up a closer ranges than longer ranges, likely because they are often rushed and not as well though out)
If the answers are all yes then fire away!
Sam
Waz77
Well-Known Member
Well I would Ed but I've been waiting 2 months now for you to get my order right but you're still not managing it, if you want people to get on board with going lead free at least give them half a chance to do it
If I'm gonna cock a shot up you can guarantee it will be a fox or a deer sub 100 yards!
I don't get buck fever, shake a little when I get a fox in the sights though
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