enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Intent is actually quite difficult to set as a charge. There are even cases where the possession of rope (presumably for tying a victim up) has, nevertheless, not been considered as "intent" to kidnap someone.
Possession of ammunition components with the intent to illegally manufacture Section 1 ammunition.
- Thread starter Conor O'Gorman
- Start date
They need to do a lot more than SAY you intended to , they have to PROVE you intended to and proving intent is extremely difficult
Less of the hand wringing - put on your man pants and FFS go make some ammo
Cheers
Bruce
Less of the hand wringing - put on your man pants and FFS go make some ammo
Cheers
Bruce
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
The problem will arise when another Statutory Instrument gold plates this by insisting that cases & bullets can only be purchased in a face to face transaction on production of an FAC with the appropriate calibres specified. Its already an issue with some RFDs getting picky over selling primers.
Primers need an FAC as per the VCR act
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Yes. Much to the being inconvenienced of those with an SGC but not an FAC wanting to buy primers and load modern all brass shotgun cases (such as those with Heath chamberless guns) as these modern cases use Large Rifle primers not shotgun primers.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Its not as simple as that.
If it's not that simple, please give us the benefit of your specialist knowledge on this subject
Cheers
Bruce
Thnks for the clarification
Triggermortis
Well-Known Member
And or loading equipment, I would say that if you buy a loading set up you must have an intention to reload ammunition even if you are not an FAC holder?
How would they prove that?
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
I load ammunition for my rifles. A while ago I intended to buy a 30-30 rifle and while I was looking for a suitable one I bought dies and cases for the rifle.
Then changed my mind and changed the slot for another cartridge, so no longer have a 30-30 slot or authority for that ammunition.
I do still have the dies and cases. I also have suitable bullets, primers and powder as I reload for similar cartridges.
Sounds like you’d suspect me of intending to load ammunition for which I don’t have authority to possess
Triggermortis
Well-Known Member
Not what I said and not what I meant.
Let me make it simpler.
A non FAC holder could legally buy a complete reloading set up in terms of a press, dies, primer tool etc as there is no restriction on them, but why would a non FAC holder do that if not to load what must be illegal ammunition?
Does possession of such equipment in such circumstances not suggest the intention to use it?
I suppose a non FAC holder who is the owner of a retail business that sells this equipment might have good reason to be in possession maybe?
Let me make it simpler.
A non FAC holder could legally buy a complete reloading set up in terms of a press, dies, primer tool etc as there is no restriction on them, but why would a non FAC holder do that if not to load what must be illegal ammunition?
Does possession of such equipment in such circumstances not suggest the intention to use it?
I suppose a non FAC holder who is the owner of a retail business that sells this equipment might have good reason to be in possession maybe?
They can suspect you all they want, they have to prove that you intend to make 30-30 ammo - and proving intent is not easy.
You are an FAC holder, you reload for cartridges on your ticket and you can truthfully say that you bought 30-30 components because you had considered applying for a variation for a 30-30 rifle on your ticket. Just because you have not yet applied for the variation does not mean you intend to load 30-30 ammo in contravention of your certificate.
This change in the law is designed to catch people making ammunition for illegally held weapons - almost exclusively hand guns.
Is 30-30 a common hand gun cartridge? - no
I would suggest that the police are more likely to take an interest in someone who is reloading cartridges commonly used in handguns such as 9mm or 357
Cheers
Bruce
" Intent " has to be proven in court . Having X amount of components that do not need to go on an FAC ? That's a tough one to get in court let alone convict .
Its all silly anyhow because as all world wide events show these evil events globally very rarely end with a live shooter to convict or a massive amount of ammo being fired
Its all silly anyhow because as all world wide events show these evil events globally very rarely end with a live shooter to convict or a massive amount of ammo being fired
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Yes, Large rifle magnum primers, Large rifle primers, Small rifle primers, Small pistol primers, Large Pistol primers are all differentIf it's not that simple, please give us the benefit of your specialist knowledge on this subject
Cheers
Bruce
I can just imagine the interview.
Police. We searched your house and found 200 rounds and components to make 500 more.
You. YES that's correct I can hold 200 rounds.
Police. But we found components to make a further 500.
You. But that would be illegal to make anymore and that's why you only found 200 rounds.
Police But you could of made more?
You. Could is not intend is it.
Police. Thanks for your time you are free to go.
I think it's quite clear that the word Intent is the crucial wording, so nothing to worry the FAC holder who has authority to hold those components.
Police. We searched your house and found 200 rounds and components to make 500 more.
You. YES that's correct I can hold 200 rounds.
Police. But we found components to make a further 500.
You. But that would be illegal to make anymore and that's why you only found 200 rounds.
Police But you could of made more?
You. Could is not intend is it.
Police. Thanks for your time you are free to go.
I think it's quite clear that the word Intent is the crucial wording, so nothing to worry the FAC holder who has authority to hold those components.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
It's all this man's fault. Well him and others similar.
Antique-gun dealer jailed for 30 years for supplying to gangsters
Ammunition and weapons made by Paul Edmunds, 66, were found at more than 100 crime scenes including gangland murders
www.theguardian.com
Nimrod1960
Well-Known Member
I have 100 or so Sako .243 cases, fired once. If I give them away or sell them ought I to see the recipients FAC? sounds a bit OTT.
Even if the police tried to push it
Could you imagine the CPS reaction to the police bringing a charge
“ … F off and stop wasting our time…”
Similar threads
