Potential hammergun restoration project: need informed views

[Pine Marten]

Hello everyone.

For several years, I have had this 16 bore Hammergun made in St Etienne, and it's always struck me that it could be a very handsome gun with a little work. However, as it's essentially worthless, I don't necessarily want to throw a tonne of money at this project, so I'm seeking some wisdom on what's reasonable to expect with this and suggestions. What I havein mind is:
- Cleaning, maybe recutting the checkering on the stock and forend.
- Redoing the oil finish.
- Stripping and cleaning the action
- Replacing the deformed firing pin
- It bears traces of previous colour case hardening: can that be redone?
- Finally, the barrels need a bit of attention. The gun is nitro-proved and sound, but there is a little pitting in the left barrel, and on the underside of the barrel flats. The blacking is actually OK, I don't think it would need redoing unless they need to do more serious work.

And of course, I worry about exposing myself to the Prrof House trashing another gun again. I don't know how tight the chokes are but they may want opening out a bit.

Here are some pictures so you can see the state of the thing. I have more if needed.4

Looking forward to your suggestions and ideas!

 

[Woodsmoke]

Handsome wee gun, that. I'd try just giving it a good clean to begin with. I wouldn't worry too much about the barrels if they're otherwise I good order, and I'd probably leave the chokes as they are, too

The trouble is, if you start making parts of the gun look brand new again, you'll find yourself chasing your tail. A wee bit of character isn't a bad thing.

 

[VSS]

I think I'd just leave it as it is, replace the damaged firing pin, and start using it!

 

[Essexsussex]

I am in the same predicament - with a 16b English hammer gun. Sadly mine isn’t nitro proofed. If the barrels pass muster (measurement by a knowledgeable gunsmith) I will have it tightened and think about re browning it. Then stripping and steaming out dents in the stock, refinishing but leaving chequering alone, it will need some sort of extending which I could do with a slip over stock extender.

then I will need to reload some black powder!

I’m seeing the gun smith tomorrow and I go armed with your tale of woe PM. Thank you for sharing it.

I will let you know if this fellow is hammer gun sympathetic - he is based two days a week at a clay ground so you can always drive out to sussex, shoot a round and see him at the same time!

Gye and Moncrieff for anyone who cares, it was my grandfathers.

 

[Fosbery Holster]

If it were mine l certainly would consider a strip and clean being careful not to damage the woodwork at the same time replacing the firing pin.
If it has been nitro- proved in the past l would have a gunsmith check the barrels for barrel wall thickness it maybe that it won’t need re-proof, you say one barrel has light pitting (probably ok), l personally wouldn’t touch the checkering.
I can see the fences have side clips and the barrels have the dolls head extension, both these details are for extra strength on discharge, if it was of great value the gun dealer or collector would want to see it in its original untouched condition, it’s more valuable untouched.
Sorry if my views don’t help you.

 

[bogtrotter]

I would not do a lot to it a clean and replace the firing pin, it has some age to it and as such should show that, adds
character.
Have it checked if you wish but having it reproofed might not end well.
Do you feel its safe to shoot? It only needs to be proofed if you are selling get it checked if gunsmith says its safe, enjoy
if not it would make a nice wall hanger.
You say its of no great value and the work you are considering would amount to a fair bit.

 

[Eric the Red]

Worth a conversation with Chris at Lucas and Watts Gunsmiths. He's into this sort of thing and will be able to give objective advice. His chequering recutting is a joy to watch - and feel!

 

[alberta boy]

I am in the same predicament - with a 16b English hammer gun. Sadly mine isn’t nitro proofed. If the barrels pass muster (measurement by a knowledgeable gunsmith) I will have it tightened and think about re browning it. Then stripping and steaming out dents in the stock, refinishing but leaving chequering alone, it will need some sort of extending which I could do with a slip over stock extender.

then I will need to reload some black powder!

I’m seeing the gun smith tomorrow and I go armed with your tale of woe PM. Thank you for sharing it.

I will let you know if this fellow is hammer gun sympathetic - he is based two days a week at a clay ground so you can always drive out to sussex, shoot a round and see him at the same time!

Gye and Moncrieff for anyone who cares, it was my grandfathers.
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I love old hammer guns . We don't see many with back action locks , like yours , around here , I'd be hard put not to get that out shooting , lovely old gun with a lot of memory attached to it . Keep us posted on your progress .

AB

 

[Essexsussex]

Thanks AB

will report back tomorrow

PM sorry that this thread has become all me me me!

 

[alberta boy]

Hello everyone.

For several years, I have had this 16 bore Hammergun made in St Etienne, and it's always struck me that it could be a very handsome gun with a little work. However, as it's essentially worthless, I don't necessarily want to throw a tonne of money at this project, so I'm seeking some wisdom on what's reasonable to expect with this and suggestions. What I havein mind is:
- Cleaning, maybe recutting the checkering on the stock and forend.
- Redoing the oil finish.
- Stripping and cleaning the action
- Replacing the deformed firing pin
- It bears traces of previous colour case hardening: can that be redone?
- Finally, the barrels need a bit of attention. The gun is nitro-proved and sound, but there is a little pitting in the left barrel, and on the underside of the barrel flats. The blacking is actually OK, I don't think it would need redoing unless they need to do more serious work.

And of course, I worry about exposing myself to the Prrof House trashing another gun again. I don't know how tight the chokes are but they may want opening out a bit.

Here are some pictures so you can see the state of the thing. I have more if needed.4

Looking forward to your suggestions and ideas!

What a lovely old gun . The detail on the fences is beautiful , I'm sure that was quite special to some one in the past . I'd spend some time and money to get that back out after game again , a glimpse into the past , well worth preserving .

AB

 

[alberta boy]

There's a Canadian dealer in Ontario , Tradex Canada ( look at your peril , lots of cool things ) that has a very large number of old Husqvarna SxS hammer guns chambered for 2 1/2 12 Gauge , not a big deal . I always get a twinge when I look at them , they'd make a great Ruffed/Spruce Grouse gun for the Spruce Groves . Threads like this don't help , great , another project lol .

AB

 

[Essexsussex]

There's a Canadian dealer in Ontario , Tradex Canada ( look at your peril , lots of cool things ) that has a very large number of old Husqvarna SxS hammer guns chambered for 2 1/2 12 Gauge , not a big deal . I always get a twinge when I look at them , they'd make a great Ruffed/Spruce Grouse gun for the Spruce Groves . Threads like this don't help , great , another project lol .

AB

You know how much I love Husqvarna guns AB. keep us posted on that as well!

 

[enfieldspares]

Iyt won't be long before someone suggest you take you French gun to gunsmith Alan Rhone....

Meanwhile if you post a clearer picture of what it says under the barrels I'll try and explain what the various figures mean. Possibly if the stamping on the barrels can be seen who made it and a link to some relevant info.

 

[Pine Marten]

Iyt won't be long before someone suggest you take you French gun to gunsmith Alan Rhone....

Meanwhile if you post a clearer picture of what it says under the barrels I'll try and explain what the various figures mean. Possibly if the stamping on the barrels can be seen who made it and a link to some relevant info.

Good gag, thanks!

I have a couple of pics, here you go.

 

[Heym SR20]

PM - some reading

Grandfather's Old Gun

Putting a tired old gun with sentimental value back to work. New hinge pin, re-jointing.

www.vintageguns.co.uk

and more importantly making some tools to fit.

Gunsmithing Tools

Gunsmithing Tools

www.vintageguns.co.uk

make sure you have screwdrivers that fit and also a tool to remove the strikers.

you can then strip it down and give it all a goid gentle clean. Restoration is a big no-no - you remove the history and it does n’t need it. Most is just grime for upteen years of use. On the woodwork a little bit of washing up liquid and warm water and a cloth will remove layers of muck, then oooo grade wire wool and gunstock oil will do the rest.

on the metal work, 0000 grade wire wool with 3in1 oil will do the same job. Or just drop the parts in an ultrasound cleaner. Dry and re oil.

you might be lucky in that the stricker may just be gummed up. If it is broken a bit of drill rod chucked in the drill held in the vice and some sharp files and you can make a new one.

have fun.

 

[Heym SR20]

I would not worry about the pitting. Have the bores measured to see if they are significantly different from the original proof.

remove the foreend, now give the gun a good shake - can you feel the barrels moving? If they do, do they still shake with the forend attached? If they don’t, use some thicker greasecon the lugs and have it rejointed in a few years time. If there is lots of movement and the gun closes on a sheet of thin paper it needs rejointing.

 

[Heym SR20]

And PM - first does it fit you.

if it doesn’t I would keep it as a curio, and find another that does.

 

[Dalua]

How interesting. What bit/s of it did Gye and Moncrieff actually construct, I wonder. The whole gun looks continental (stock, sling-swivels) and presuambly the action and barrels are Belgian - so one might expect the rest of it to be Belgian also.

I have a fondness for older guns, and I'd go with those who suggest that the less non-essential work that's done to it, the better.

 

[hybridfiat]

That high relief boss is interesting. That's not easy to do. If it is true carved relief it one of the most expensive embellishments you can have done to a gun.
Looks well done too.
Can you post a better pic please.

 

[enfieldspares]

Get an old chip pan with a wire mesh tray from a charity shop. Then get along to the Co-op, Asda, Morrison's or whatever and get one bag of washing soda. Boil with a rolling boil the stripped parts in a strong solution of washing soda and water. It won't attack the steel but it will remove the muck and grime and FWIW sterilise the thing.

J Chanu Canonier will be the name of a maker. Double Epreuve means, literally "double proof" but usually means that the gun is proved for 70mm not 65mm cartridges. But not always. Essentially it has been fired twice at proof.

The length of cartridge can often be found to be marked at the front ends of the barrel flats. As either 7 or 6.5 or 65mm or 70mm which will help date the gun also. Made between 1890 to 1912 if marked as 7 or 6.5.

Acier mandrine can mean drawn steel as in the barrels were made by being made as a cylinder that was then rolled around a mandrel. This gave economies of production as you were not drilling out a steel rod to make the barrel but actually were starting with a cylinder. Not the same as but perhaps loosely explained as some rifle barrels are made today. Starts as a short cylinder and gets rolled and drawn to make a longer thinner cylinder which is then near to the form and length of the desired finished barrel.

Acier fondu et trempe means they have quenched steel. Which translates as case hardened to us in UK. Soft on the inside and hard on the outside.

What else? Usually most French shotguns will have the weight of the barrels stamped on them somewhere.