Potential hammergun restoration project: need informed views

[enfieldspares]

Choke rectifie portee garantie is proclaiming that not only have the chokes been regulated but that the pattern is guaranteed. That's advertising "puff" really!

Here's something very true written by someone else about French guns:

The French couldn't care less about the rest of the world. They sleep at night secure in the knowledge that the pinnacle of culture and sophistication resides in the heart of France, in Paris. They traditionally are insular in their world view. Their industry mirrors that outlook. Thus, despite a thriving gun industry, the output was, and is, primarily offered and marketed to Frenchmen in France.

The Brits, on the other hand, have an extremely outgoing world view and always have. Success for Britain is on the world stage. So their thriving gun industry marketed their wares to the world.

The result is Britain's leading makers are known throughout the world. While France's leading gun-makers are known throughout....France.

If you want to own fine guns, it's an opportunity.

 

[Pine Marten]

Thanks for all your helpful responses everyone! So many questions to respond to... I'll take them one by one now.

 

[Pine Marten]

remove the foreend, now give the gun a good shake - can you feel the barrels moving? If they do, do they still shake with the forend attached? If they don’t, use some thicker greasecon the lugs and have it rejointed in a few years time. If there is lots of movement and the gun closes on a sheet of thin paper it needs rejointing.

I can feel slight sideways movement both with and without the forend. The forend makes no difference to the amplitude. But you definitely can't close it on a piece of paper or visually see any gaps. I used to use this gun for roughshooting and nothing has ever suggested to me that it's unsafe. Maybe at some stage it could use some tightening up, but it's nothing serious.

DSC02057 by pinemarten, on Flickr

 

[Pine Marten]

And PM - first does it fit you.

It's a little short but it's OK, I can shoot with it. I daresay it would benefit from a slip-on leather stock extension.

 

[Popa ray]

Lovely gun.
Please don't "tart" it up,so many old guns are spoiled by overdoing restoration.
Get it checked by a good gunsmith then use and enjoy it.
Ray

 

[Pine Marten]

Get an old chip pan with a wire mesh tray from a charity shop. Then get along to the Co-op, Asda, Morrison's or whatever and get one bag of washing soda. Boil with a rolling boil the stripped parts in a strong solution of washing soda and water. It won't attack the steel but it will remove the muck and grime and FWIW sterilise the thing.

J Chanu Canonier will be the name of a maker. Double Epreuve means, literally "double proof" but usually means that the gun is proved for 70mm not 65mm cartridges. But not always. Essentially it has been fired twice at proof.

The length of cartridge can often be found to be marked at the front ends of the barrel flats. As either 7 or 6.5 or 65mm or 70mm which will help date the gun also. Made between 1890 to 1912 if marked as 7 or 6.5.

Acier mandrine can mean drawn steel as in the barrels were made by being made as a cylinder that was then rolled around a mandrel. This gave economies of production as you were not drilling out a steel rod to make the barrel but actually were starting with a cylinder. Not the same as but perhaps loosely explained as some rifle barrels are made today. Starts as a short cylinder and gets rolled and drawn to make a longer thinner cylinder which is then near to the form and length of the desired finished barrel.

Acier fondu et trempe means they have quenched steel. Which translates as case hardened to us in UK. Soft on the inside and hard on the outside.

What else? Usually most French shotguns will have the weight of the barrels stamped on them somewhere.

Thanks for that world of knowledge! The barrels are indeed stamped with "65", which is OK because most UK loaded 16 bore seems to be that length. I can't find the reference now but I researched it once and it seemed that J Chanu ceased trading in the 1920s.

 

[McKenzie]

It's fun using a hammer gun & I still take out my P. Webley (1870-85, Purdey thumb-hole opening) on fine days a couple of times a season. Got 5 pheasants for 6 cartridges with it the week before last & it's probably the gun that fits me best.
I'm be up for a hammer gun shoot one day if anyone else was interested.

 

[Pine Marten]

OK, so going back over your advice, I was being a bit ambitious and over the top, but essentially, it needs a good clean and a new firing pin. Regarding the firing pin, the right one is sprung, the left one no longer it. As a result, the left one is pushed into place when a cartridge is loaded, and the lack of dampening had caused the head to mushroom slightly, a bit like a nail. Perhaps actually, it just needs a new spring. One thing I do want to do is clean up and re-oil the wood, which is I think very nice under the grime. The forend in particular is just black, although presumably underneath the crud it matches the stock. Sounds like careful scrubbing with soapy water and very fine steel wool would sort that out. Rebuilding an oil finish, I am familiar with.

I don't really want to touch the action myself, let alone remove the stock and fit it back on. I lack the skills, and although I'm sure I could work it out in time, time is exactly what I don't have at this stage in life. So the dismantling, stripping and cleaning is something I'd like to have done by a professional. It also sounds like a bit of a cottage industry thing, probably something quite mundane for a craftsperson with the skills and tools. Does anyone have any recommendations, bearing in mind I'm in London? Don't say Purdey's.

 

[Roestalker39]

If it were me I’d just clean and a new firing pin , looks lovely though! Enjoy it and use it plenty !

 

[Heym SR20]

I can feel slight sideways movement both with and without the forend. The forend makes no difference to the amplitude. But you definitely can't close it on a piece of paper or visually see any gaps. I used to use this gun for roughshooting and nothing has ever suggested to me that it's unsafe. Maybe at some stage it could use some tightening up, but it's nothing serious.

DSC02057 by pinemarten, on Flickr

would not worry about it then, but it will need doing sometime.

 

[alberta boy]

I can feel slight sideways movement both with and without the forend. The forend makes no difference to the amplitude. But you definitely can't close it on a piece of paper or visually see any gaps. I used to use this gun for roughshooting and nothing has ever suggested to me that it's unsafe. Maybe at some stage it could use some tightening up, but it's nothing serious.

DSC02057 by pinemarten, on Flickr

Great pic and a classic double . It may require some searching to find a smith to work on it , but I think it's worth it .

AB

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

If you’re in North London then Ladbrook & Langton are on Watling Street just north of Radlett.....I’ve been using them for years including work on my Blanch Damascus barrelled hammer gun over the years since inheriting it from my father in 2005 including Nitro proofing, services, new firing pins/springs Etc.

One mainspring was piercing primers it was so strong (c18lbs pull compared to the other at 9.5) and over the years this had eroded the face around the firing pin hole to the extent the pin was effectively stroking down the primer which didn’t help. They took almost half the weight out of the heavy spring and welded the face and re-drilled the hole ( well at least I think that’s what they did.... can’t tell).

Does it shoot well? Yep, one of those guns that floats into the shoulder and is a joy to use.

cheers
fizz

edit... corrected spelling : Ladbrook not Ladbroke

 

[enfieldspares]

I have also used Ladbroke and Langton. They were very good.

 

[Pine Marten]

I have also used Ladbroke and Langton. They were very good.

Thanks for the tip! They're actually just half an hour's drive from me, so I'll get in touch and let you know how it goes.

 

[Pine Marten]

I dropped it off to Carl at Ladbrook and I'm glad to say that the Gun Doctor gave it a whole lot more time than the GP does humans. It had a full gunsmith's MRI scan and I'm glad to say it's clear of anything serious. It's now checked into gun hospital for a month or so, all for a very reasonable price (I live in London, I think everything is a reasonable price everywhere else!).

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

Excellent..... I look forward to seeing/hearing how it turns out.


cheers

fizz

 

[Gunner]

Thanks for the tip! They're actually just half an hour's drive from me, so I'll get in touch and let you know how it goes.

I used Ladbrook & Langton for servicing my grandfather’s old Armstrong boxlock 12 bore with damascus barrels that I inherited. They did a great job & I highly recommend using them. Had it nitro reproved & they built a new pair of ejectors. Grandfather had to hand it in for use with the Home Guard & when returned after the war someone had decided to have the ejectors away! Keep us posted on your outcome.

 

[enfieldspares]

Ooh! Ejectors aren't cheap! Last set I had done in the trade in Birmingham cost me, made and fitted £350 for the pair.

 

[Pine Marten]

So the Gun Doctor's prescription is:
1. Build up the bolt a little to tighten the slight rattle.
2. Polish up the inside of the barrels to make sure they're true (wall thickness was OK)
3. Degrease and clean the forend which is black with use so that I can rebuild the oil finish to match the stock.
4. Replace or fix the firing pin.
5. Coin finish the action and locks to blend into the remaining colour hardening.

Should take about a month, which in itself is remarkable. Anything I've ever had done in London has taken more like a year! I'm pretty excited this is underway!

 

[Ade8mm]

Hello everyone.

For several years, I have had this 16 bore Hammergun made in St Etienne, and it's always struck me that it could be a very handsome gun with a little work. However, as it's essentially worthless, I don't necessarily want to throw a tonne of money at this project, so I'm seeking some wisdom on what's reasonable to expect with this and suggestions. What I havein mind is:
- Cleaning, maybe recutting the checkering on the stock and forend.
- Redoing the oil finish.
- Stripping and cleaning the action
- Replacing the deformed firing pin
- It bears traces of previous colour case hardening: can that be redone?
- Finally, the barrels need a bit of attention. The gun is nitro-proved and sound, but there is a little pitting in the left barrel, and on the underside of the barrel flats. The blacking is actually OK, I don't think it would need redoing unless they need to do more serious work.

And of course, I worry about exposing myself to the Prrof House trashing another gun again. I don't know how tight the chokes are but they may want opening out a bit.

Here are some pictures so you can see the state of the thing. I have more if needed.4

Looking forward to your suggestions and ideas!

PM. Looks pretty good as she is. I always think one of the pleasures of having what I refer to as "rusty relics" is the patina and authenticity. Reading the above threads it seems like you have the job well in hand. If she is "off her face" there are plenty of ways a competent smith can often fix matters without spending big money (not talking about the apochryphal "shade tree merchants" with a hammer and centre-punch you understand).
16 bore . A great bore imo. 1 oz of lead and you have a "square load" which should pattern well. It will compliment your Drilling very well I would think. Keep us posted.