Pre DSC 1 shooting skills training

[Ronin]

I recently helped out on a DSC1 course on the shooting test

The test being (once zero confirmed at 100 yds)

Two shots prone at 100 on main kill zone of black roe outline

Two shots standing, seated, kneeling (your choice) at 70 yds same target same kill zone

Two shots at head for humane dispatch at 20 - again into a kill zone on the target

I know several other members here help out on DSC courses giving up their time as unpaid volunteers to aid the free running of such courses and pass on valuable skills to the candidates

It was apparent to me and a common theme from feedback from people I know helping on other courses across the country that there are two differing candidates - those who are prepared, have access to their own rifle and have practiced the test on their own and the second who maybe have no access to firearms, have not been able to practice and are totally unprepared for this element of the course, which, is a FUNDAMENTAL part of the course and required to demonstrate at least some ability and skill with a firearm to kill humanely

So, my question is this

Is there a need for a pre dsc1 shooting course

If so - what should that cover

Basic firearms safety (classroom )

Firearms handling and positions for shooting (classroom)

Practice using .22RF at reduced range on actual course target to familiarise candidate

Progressing to centerfire using course target and practice test till competent


I’m asking as I feel there is a definite need for this type of training

Candidates should be pre reading their course materiel / practicing questions once they have it in hand

The practical element should be practiced too


Discuss

 

[McKenzie]

Agreed. The first time I fired a full bore rifle was during the DSC1 test with a lent rifle. I'd been shooting with shotguns for decades but didn't really know anyone who went stalking.

 

[Andyquadra]

I totally agree with you, I experienced the very same when I did my DSC1 a couple of years ago with the shooting and course material.
With the greatest of respect to people taking the course, I know I wouldn't have been able to have learned the material purely within the 3 days.
I got myself a set of sticks and practiced the shooting ranges and positions, even on the morning before the course started, I was out at 100yards checking.

 

[finnbear270]

As a practicing RCO, I would agree in principle to the main thrust of the suggestion, Maybe a need for it to be incorporated into the L one?,

 

[Suilven]

Fully agree. I have my DSC1 later this month. Diligently reading the manual but I don't have my own rifle yet and have no way to practice for the shooting test.

 

[willie_gunn]

I agree with you 100% in terms of the need.

Sadly I fear that anyone setting up such a course would need to be prepared for criticism from those who will perceive it as another part of the "DSC money-making scheme", or who believe that only those who learned to shoot sitting on their father or grandfather's knee should be out there stalking deer.

These kind of attitudes still prevail, more's the pity.

If you can ignore the naysayers, however, I have no doubt many will appreciate the benefits of such a course and the opportunity it gives them to become proficient with a centerfire rifle prior to the shooting test.

 

[gixer1]

People should have practiced prior to this - even if that is with an air rifle and sticks…I guess the issue you run into is by the letter of the law using others rifles can be difficult especially for non-FAc/youngsters.

It’s a good idea in principle for anyone planning to use a firearm - regardless of if it’s for the DSC or not!

There’s no substitute for trigger time! And there’s a lot to be said for tin-can-alley!

Regards,
Gixer

 

[Dunwaters]

I recently helped out on a DSC1 course on the shooting test

The test being (once zero confirmed at 100 yds)

Two shots prone at 100 on main kill zone of black roe outline

Two shots standing, seated, kneeling (your choice) at 70 yds same target same kill zone

Two shots at head for humane dispatch at 20 - again into a kill zone on the target

I know several other members here help out on DSC courses giving up their time as unpaid volunteers to aid the free running of such courses and pass on valuable skills to the candidates

It was apparent to me and a common theme from feedback from people I know helping on other courses across the country that there are two differing candidates - those who are prepared, have access to their own rifle and have practiced the test on their own and the second who maybe have no access to firearms, have not been able to practice and are totally unprepared for this element of the course, which, is a FUNDAMENTAL part of the course and required to demonstrate at least some ability and skill with a firearm to kill humanely

So, my question is this

Is there a need for a pre dsc1 shooting course

If so - what should that cover

Basic firearms safety (classroom )

Firearms handling and positions for shooting (classroom)

Practice using .22RF at reduced range on actual course target to familiarise candidate

Progressing to centerfire using course target and practice test till competent


I’m asking as I feel there is a definite need for this type of training

Candidates should be pre reading their course materiel / practicing questions once they have it in hand

The practical element should be practiced too


Discuss

I honestly dont think it would make any difference. I’ve helped at a few assessments here and the standard of shooting is hugely variable, there are a lot of people out there that just can’t shoot worth a damn and there are a fair few that rely on someone else to zero their rifle and never touch it after that. Part of the problem is late converts to stalking whose first rifle is a full bore and they’re afraid of it, part of it is that a lot of people never get the chance or maybe just never practice shooting from field positions. I’ve had seasoned hunters who’ve never fired from anything other than a high seat, bipod or quad sticks, they‘re totally lost without them.
The big elephant in the room is that the shooting test doesn’t matter, you can repeat just that element of the test as often as you like until you luck through, if you want people to take it seriously then change the rules so that if you fail any element you‘ve got to repeat the whole course again.
Or maybe just drop the shooting test?
By the way, theres a proposal filtering through from Europe( where defuc else?) that all hunting rifles will have to be certified as zeroed on a registered range, the rationale is that there are a lot of poorly zeroed rifles being used for hunting leading to poor bullet placement and unnecessary suffering, so a bit more regulation will fix it.

 

[finnbear270]

I honestly dont think it would make any difference. I’ve helped at a few assessments here and the standard of shooting is hugely variable, there are a lot of people out there that just can’t shoot worth a damn and there are a fair few that rely on someone else to zero their rifle and never touch it after that. Part of the problem is late converts to stalking whose first rifle is a full bore and they’re afraid of it, part of it is that a lot of people never get the chance or maybe just never practice shooting from field positions. I’ve had seasoned hunters who’ve never fired from anything other than a high seat, bipod or quad sticks, they‘re totally lost without them.
The big elephant in the room is that the shooting test doesn’t matter, you can repeat just that element of the test as often as you like until you luck through, if you want people to take it seriously then change the rules so that if you fail any element you‘ve got to repeat the whole course again.
Or maybe just drop the shooting test?
By the way, theres a proposal filtering through from Europe( where defuc else?) that all hunting rifles will have to be certified as zeroed on a registered range, the rationale is that there are a lot of poorly zeroed rifles being used for hunting leading to poor bullet placement and unnecessary suffering, so a bit more regulation will fix it.

Certified ranges are used every time we hit the digs when we go, & a test score card issued.

 

[Dunwaters]

Certified ranges are used every time we hit the digs when we go, & a test score card issued.

Sorry but I dont understand that.Where or what are you shooting?

 

[Tazz]

I did a one day Pre DSC1 course that involved the shooting test, can’t remember who I booked it through but I think it was BASC

 

[devon deer stalker]

I had a client a few years back, prior to stalking he wanted to be put through the test with me, (he had never shot a full bore rifle before) unlike when I did the DSC1 in the 90's I only had a 2 stick set-up, we used my quad sticks, after the 'test' he tried all targets off the quad sticks, and would of passed!
His flew through the DSC1 test, in fact asked if he could do the whole test off sticks!

Is there a need for training, to complete novices I would say absolutely.

Cheers

Richard

 

[finnbear270]

Sorry but I dont understand that.Where or what are you shooting?

By the way, theres a proposal filtering through from Europe( where defuc else?) that all hunting rifles will have to be certified as zeroed on a registered range, the rationale is that there are a lot of poorly zeroed rifles being used for hunting leading to poor bullet placement and unnecessary suffering, so a bit more regulation will fix it.
European Boar drives

 

[Buchan]

Fully agree. I have my DSC1 later this month. Diligently reading the manual but I don't have my own rifle yet and have no way to practice for the shooting test.

If you have an air rifle, practice in the garden. The same elements apply.

 

[Buchan]

I agree with Ronin, there is a need for this, even if it is just getting people to shoot under a bit of pressure.

I saw the new shooting test in action recently, and while I agree with the addtion of a humane shot, I thing DMQ have actually downgraded the standard of marksmanship required. 4 shots into the chest target of a deer isn't enough.

 

[finnbear270]

I agree with Ronin, there is a need for this, even if it is just getting people to shoot under a bit of pressure.

I saw the new shooting test in action recently, and while I agree with the addtion of a humane shot, I thing DMQ have actually downgraded the standard of marksmanship required. 4 shots into the chest target of a deer isn't enough.

Just so long as the hill get's excluded from the format though

 

[VSS]

Having been present throughout two DSC1 shooting test days (once when I was taking my own test, and once as a helper) I noticed that the experienced shots did NOT consistently out perform those who hadn't shot before.
Very few of the experienced shooters completed the test in the minimum number of shots. Largely due to overconfidence I should think.

 

[Alantoo]

I have used an Air Rifle since a lad, and an FAC one for ten years before I used a centre fire. I went to the Corinium Range and had an introduction to centre fire and then a run through of the DSC1 test with Paul Hill before my DSC1. Very useful.

Having had similar experiences helping out novices at DSC1 shooting tests, I would go further than @Ronin. I think all the points made in the OP should be a condition prior to the application for an FAC and possession of a rifle.

It seems nuts to me that someone can acquire an FAC and go out with a centre fire rifle (especially at night to shoot foxes) without any basic “driving test” to demonstrate shooting skill or safety awareness of the need for backdrop.

Alan

 

[malmick]

I was in a similar position to @Alantoo, having shot air rifle and pistol from being a young lad and then everything else through to full bore rifle in my teens. I then spent about 35 years not shooting. In my 50's I got back into shooting but only had .22RF on my FAC when I did my DSC1 so had to borrow a rifle for the test. I used my rimfire rifles to practise off sticks at 50m and had already shot a lot of offhand 20 yard to 50m comps with air and rimfire. On the DSC1 course we had the facility to practice the day before the test but I struggled with the optics on the two loaned rifles due to being ready for cataract operations. On the day of the test there was fortunately another rifle available that I could get a good sight picture with so I shot the test OK.

I was glad that I had prepared by shooting off sticks and agree with Ronin and others that the opportunity to practice is a good thing.

 

[Dunwaters]

By the way, theres a proposal filtering through from Europe( where defuc else?) that all hunting rifles will have to be certified as zeroed on a registered range, the rationale is that there are a lot of poorly zeroed rifles being used for hunting leading to poor bullet placement and unnecessary suffering, so a bit more regulation will fix it.
European Boar drives

Loud AAAAAHHHH! So that’s it.
Has it occurred to any of the mighty intellects supporting this measure that regardless of how well your bundouki is zeroed, crap shooting is crap shooting?